Future of British motorsport

[Richy_Rich]

Hmm, good point about time between races. You don't usually have to wait around for the next heat at the bangers and they have some serious cleanups to do.

[ascarmarshal]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

The delay between races is now minimal with most clubs, in my experience. Most do not use green flag laps except where necessary (e.g. races which may include cars on slicks; races in different conditions to qualifying), and/or use the the lap out of assembly (if it is a lap) as the green flag lap. Generally the delays are down to circuit configuration and the time taken to clear up incidents, in my experience.

As for reducing fees - yes, good idea. A fee reduction should be calculated retrospectively if a grid exceeds x cars, and either paid as start money, or preferably in championships as a reduction in entry fees in subsequent rounds (ensures loyalty).

BRSCC use green flag laps. The only one that doesn't to my knowledge is 750

[Bob Pearson]

Promotion, or lack of it is a real issue. While we have a situation where the circuit owner keeps the gate money, but is paid for the circuit hire by the club who in turn is paid for the circuit hire by the drivers, then no-one who can affect it has an incentive to increase the gate takings.
At risk of sounding like " during the war", when I was motorcycle racing in the seventies, the organising clubs were all unpaid enthusiasts, unlike todays salaried members of BARC and BRSCC, so that kept down costs. There were no engine or other parts suppliers which competitors were forced to use " in the interests of level playing fields", so that was also a reduction in costs. Promotion was handled by the unpaid enthusiasts and crowds approaching 5000 at airfield cicuits were common.
Maybe we should be looking at weeding out some of this huge army of people who have bribed their way into positions between the racers and the grid with the only intention of seperating the racer from his money. This will bring costs down, more people can compete, the sport will be stronger because, although playing to a huge crowd is nice, the sport must be measured by the number of cars on the grid

[Chris Y]

BRSCC use green flag laps only at some circuits. For example, they don't at Oulton because the assembly area exit is past the start/finish line, so it's easier to have a combined assembly/green flag lap.

BARC have both an assembly lap and a green flag lap at Oulton, and when you're on the Island or International layout, it's a long time, especially as some of the cars slow down, weave, and generally take their time..

[Ian Sowman]

BRSCC tend not to use green flag laps at Mallory, either. They probably do at Brands (which ascarmarshal may be more familiar with) because of the positioning of the assembly areas being different at each circuit. You could argue then that BRSCC do use green flag laps, but combine them with the formation lap to save time...

[Steve Burns]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

As for reducing fees - yes, good idea. A fee reduction should be calculated retrospectively if a grid exceeds x cars, and either paid as start money, or preferably in championships as a reduction in entry fees in subsequent rounds (ensures loyalty).

Where did you get that idea?

[Ian Sowman]

Can't remember!

[greenamex2]

Anyway, whoever has them green flag laps are dumb. Just on petrol consumption alone they should be scrapped!

As a racer I find the gap between races very annoying.

If I ever spectated at a race meeting I think would seriously question why I was spending 15/20 quid to spend at least a quarter of my time watching nothing, marshalls sweeping up the track (as essential as that is, thanks guys), the course car trundling round or a bunch race cars slowly driving round. If we believe we are there as entertainment then this really needs to be minimised.

And has anybody ever seen the 3-2-1 minute boards actually be 1 minute apart? Rules are either there for a reason or should be changed.

[Eddy V]

Originally Posted by Bob Pearson

Promotion, or lack of it is a real issue

It is the same problem everywhere. You only have to be 5 miles away from a track (be it UK or else) and you don't even know something is going to happen there.
In the old days (#sigh#) the organisers made the effort of sending out posters and flyers to some key people, away from the track, to promote their event. You only need to put a poster at the local shop or pub to make the people aware there is something happening at track so-and-so.
But the organisers just can't be bothered with that anymore, moneymaking is the only concern (for most at least).
It is the casual spectator we need, the die hards know everything anyhow.

[Bob Pearson]

Green flag laps are only a pain to people who aren't racing on slicks

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Eddy V

It is the same problem everywhere. You only have to be 5 miles away from a track (be it UK or else) and you don't even know something is going to happen there.
In the old days (#sigh#) the organisers made the effort of sending out posters and flyers to some key people, away from the track, to promote their event. You only need to put a poster at the local shop or pub to make the people aware there is something happening at track so-and-so.
But the organisers just can't be bothered with that anymore, moneymaking is the only concern (for most at least).
It is the casual spectator we need, the die hards know everything anyhow.

Eddy, there is an easy answer to the question why don't organisers publicise their events? In short at a lot of venues the organiser is not the owner of the venue. In most cases the gate receipts are taken by the circuit owner so there is NO incentive for the organiser to advertise. That leaves the circuit owner who has usually set his venue hire fee so that he is bound to make money on the day so if any spectators pitch up they are looked upon as extra profit!

For most circuits it is only the BIG events such as BTCC and F3 that seem to get the publicity and it is these that are usually guranteed to get the bigger gates anyway!

It does seem absurd but then a lot of things within motor sport are!

[ascarmarshal]

JP advertises events at Brands all round the M25 with road side trailers

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by Bob Pearson

Green flag laps are only a pain to people who aren't racing on slicks

Fine, then someone should state in the rules - Green flag only if wet race after a dry practice or on slicks. Which I think someone else said.

Still, it would make it more entertaining for the average spectator if the slick shod cars DIDN'T get a green flag lap!

Out of interest, how important IS the green flag lap for slick shod cars? I never made the race in my one foray on slicks after an excess body roll/suspension bottoming out/terminal understeer/hello tyre barrier incident in the practice.

[Bob Pearson]

Green flag laps vary in importance to the slick shod runner depending on weather, the circuit shape, the state of the tyres and the car involved.
You are probably right about increase in entertainment, but it would be short lived when we all ran out of money to repair the cars and got fed up with not getting past the first corner.
There is also the matter of warming up brakes. but that applies to everyone.

[Bob Pearson]

I should have added, that I believe that the bulk of problems with the sport at this time emenate from the type of people who are in control. The people who have been attracted to it believing that we are all a bottomless pit of money and so can provide them with a gravy train for the forseeable future. Hence my fist post referring to the comparison with the motor cycle racing of the seventies. Such issues as green flag laps and whether they bore the spectators is small beer compared with the problem of keeping the competitors coming in sufficient numbers.

[Suze]

[QUOTE=Eddy V]It is the same problem everywhere. You only have to be 5 miles away from a track (be it UK or else) and you don't even know something is going to happen there.
In the old days (#sigh#) the organisers made the effort of sending out posters and flyers to some key people, away from the track, to promote their event. QUOTE]

yes and no, depends on the circuit. my local's combe (10 mins) and isn't *too* bad. the f3 / old powertour thingy used to get advertised well, but you tend to hear things on local radio and papers here.

[Richy_Rich]

Ok, I've been mulling this over for a while and at the risk of playing devil's advocate (or being dismissed as a crackpot), is a lot motorsport even relevant at all these days?

Way back, when people used to line the streets to watch a procession of (deadly) motor-vehicles tear through their villages on some road race or other, the excitement and buzz was generated watching unobtainable vehicles rattling by at unimaginable speeds.

Nowadays it's only really the cost that is any sort of barrier to entry, most people's road cars go faster and handle better than a lot of clubman racers. The thrill of speed is, more or less, attainable to anyone. Or, if it's just witnessing the speed and noise that people are after they could always stand by the motorway.

I'm not sure it's a coincidence that the most popular forms of 'amateur' motorsport remain the ones that least resemble day-to-day driving (dragsters, short-oval, rallying etc.) Could it be that perhaps people just aren't that interested in a sport that's, what, at least 80 years old and involves piloting a wheeled carriage that uses a mode of propulsion that's been around since the Edwardian period?

This isn't necessarily my view, but just a thought that's been troubling me for a while.

[ascarmarshal]

I think the main threat to British Motorsport as we know it is the falling numbers of marshals. This has been discussed in the marshals forum. I have just retired from marshalling after 19 years due to the cost and other reasons which I am not allowed to go into on here. If marshal numbers keep falling then I can see a safety team at each circuit and a minimum of marshal on the posts. If a car goes off a full course yellow comes out a safety trucks attend the incident.

[ss_collins]

what is the reason for the falling number of marshals? the same reason ther are not blacks in the sport. There is no new blood coming into it.

Its my personal aim and ambition to change that.

[ascarmarshal]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

what is the reason for the falling number of marshals? the same reason ther are not blacks in the sport. There is no new blood coming into it.

Its my personal aim and ambition to change that.

When I was marshalling I did not care what colour a marshal was as long as they did their job. There was a press release a couple of weeks ago that stated that most marshals were white males and implied that this need to change.

[Bob Pearson]

A depressing thought Rich, but I guess there is a cetain amount of truth in it. The only solution to it would be to ban all slower cars from racing, and that simply wouldn't be fair.
A certain amount can be done to spice up the show without detracting from it's need to remain a motor racing event.
One thing springs to mind, what about a good roving microphone operator at work between races, interviewing drivers for the next race. I've seen it done very effectively at an ASCAR event and the atmosphere in the start area was superb. The guy needs to know racing and be good with the questions.
I think we can all do out little bit to make it attractive, making a fuss of spectators when they come round the paddock, let children be photographed in cars. I doesn't count for much, but it is in the right direction. I once saw an F3 team manager giving a lecture to about 25 assembled spectators regarding the cars and work being done on them during a pitlane walkabout at Thruxton, and he was 1st class.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Bob Pearson

I should have added, that I believe that the bulk of problems with the sport at this time emenate from the type of people who are in control. The people who have been attracted to it believing that we are all a bottomless pit of money and so can provide them with a gravy train for the forseeable future. . . . .

Bob, I nearly replied to one of your earlier posts but ran out of time for a considered reply. However, I really do think this one is a bit OTT.

Of the people who I know who might be described as "in control" (and few of them would describe themselves as that) I cannot think of one who takes the attitude you describe. They may well disagree with you (and with me) about all sorts of things involved in the running of the sport but I can't think of one who does not believe that the sport is important and that drivers interests (financial and other) are central to club motorsport. Some of them may gain their employment through the sport and some run businesses providing goods and services. That does not mean that your remark is fair.

Regards

Jim

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by Bob Pearson

Green flag laps are only a pain to people who aren't racing on slicks

But it would be the same for all of you so just learn to take it cautious on the first lap instead of trying to win the race on the first one.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by ascarmarshal

When I was marshalling I did not care what colour a marshal was as long as they did their job. There was a press release a couple of weeks ago that stated that most marshals were white males and implied that this need to change.

BARC have had a black guy marshalling for years, he was down at Pembrey in September, I really don't see where the race bit comes into the discussion with respect. If the guys aint into it then they aint into it end of story, where is the skin colour relevant to the argument?

[ascarmarshal]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

BARC have had a black guy marshalling for years, he was down at Pembrey in September, I really don't see where the race bit comes into the discussion with respect. If the guys aint into it then they aint into it end of story, where is the skin colour relevant to the argument?

I agree skin colour has nothing to do with being a marshal. Here is the thread which starts with the press release

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77348