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Old 21 Oct 2019, 05:27 (Ref:3935997)   #1
PVDA
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PVDA should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridPVDA should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridPVDA should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
How to solve the Safety Car issues

Was going to post this in the Bathurst thread but it would get lost in the whole penalty thing going on at the moment.

As a person who works on track during Safety Car incidents I believe I am qualified to comment on this subject unlike may keyboard warriors out here in cyber space.

At the AASA sanctioned AMRS Wakefield round yesterday one of the GT-1 cars binned it into the gravel trap at turn 2, a Code 40 (cars simply use the Pit Lane limiter) was called using a count down on the Race Management Channel and by the end of the count down all cars were expected to have slowed to 40 under a full course yellow situation.

The car was quickly extricated from the gravel and sent on his way and once the Safety & Recovery vehicles that responded had safely cleared the circuit restored to Green after a short count down on the Race Management channel.

I'm pretty sure the cars did less than a full lap at 40 km/h, under a normal Safety Car deployment it would've been 2-3 laps.

I was in Race Control coordinating the Emergency response to this by radio with the two vehicles responded and discussed this with my team members who responded to the incident at the end of the days racing and all commented how much safer they felt knowing the cars were doing 40 everywhere and not speeding past like they would under Safety Car.

It also allowed immediate response of the two vehicles as the cars immediately slowed to 40 and were not racing around to catch the Safety Car train so it also improves driver safety with faster responses as we do not need to wait for the field to slow down to get out there.

Everyone needs to forget about the consequences to the results for individual cars, drivers or teams, this MUST be looked at from the perspective of MARSHAL & DRIVER SAFETY only.

There has already been too many near misses with marshals under Safety Car to not bring in either a Code 40 or Code 60 immediately.

Oh, one car was penalised with a Drive Through for not slowing quickly enough to 40 compared with other cars around him yesterday.

Here is a link to the Code 40 period of the GT-1 race at the AMRS round at Wakefield yesterday from the Blendline TV's live stream. https://youtu.be/9_SxuXbzgS8?t=11609
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Old 21 Oct 2019, 05:34 (Ref:3935998)   #2
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A virtual safety car (under whichever implementation you want to take) makes sense, but is not a complete replacement for the safety car itself.

You may need to bunch the field up to have space to work
You may need to be able to stop the field behind the safety car in particular circumstances

However it does make sense that such an option should exist.

It makes no sense that (and this isn't just Supercars, look at the BTCC implementation as well) the most unsafe point is when the safety car is called, yet racing is still flat-out for a certain portion of time. Do you look at an option similar to the code 40/60/80 (whatever speed) and have a maximum speed to 'catch' the safety car? It would be above safety car speed, but still below racing speed. It would also stop competitors who pit and then race back to the end of the queue, where marshals might still be working.

F1 do implement similar systems with the whole delta time micro sector thing, but like everything in F1, it's way more complicated than it needs to be.
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Old 21 Oct 2019, 06:20 (Ref:3936004)   #3
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Good idea Paul
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Old 21 Oct 2019, 07:06 (Ref:3936008)   #4
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Obviously they should and could do it.I think they believe the safety car entertainment factor of bunch,green,crash,repeat is attractive to their fan base.I think it turns off more people than it turns on.
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Old 21 Oct 2019, 07:30 (Ref:3936010)   #5
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Nice intentions here, however the category adjudicators have had 25+ years to get this system nutted out; and have also just received a $150k windfall on behalf of it still not working properly.

Surely after the Auckland debacle, and yesterday's hoo-ha (including the large financial injection); they might, just might, be able to put some resources towards setting up a fool-proof solution?
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Old 21 Oct 2019, 21:35 (Ref:3936134)   #6
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Knackers, the biggest issue with your idea being implemented is CAMS or whatever they call themselves today....

Other than that, very well done to the team for pulling off such a great idea!!
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Old 21 Oct 2019, 22:21 (Ref:3936138)   #7
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Would most current racecars make it up through the Cutting at 40??

Does changing gears cancel the limiter?
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Old 22 Oct 2019, 00:48 (Ref:3936144)   #8
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Would most current racecars make it up through the Cutting at 40??

Does changing gears cancel the limiter?
Forget rev limiter.

Minimum sector time is the key here.

The dash displays a plus or minus to the required time - just like in F1.
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Old 22 Oct 2019, 03:23 (Ref:3936161)   #9
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Sorry chavez, that was directed at PVDA the original poster, who noted that at Wakefield last weekend they used the pit limiters for Code40.

I was suggesting that maybe that wouldn't work at Bathurst
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Old 22 Oct 2019, 05:43 (Ref:3936166)   #10
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Some states have the "slow to 40" for flashing lights/first responder in regards to road cars. A lot of time was put into working out the appropriate passing speed - 40km increased survivability by a large amount.

I agree with the above though - entertainment car, double stacking etc. are dangerous elements of the series that I feel it may be addicted to
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Old 22 Oct 2019, 06:12 (Ref:3936174)   #11
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Knackers, the biggest issue with your idea being implemented is CAMS or whatever they call themselves today....

Other than that, very well done to the team for pulling off such a great idea!!
No the biggest issue is Supercars who I truly believe think they have to dumb down their racing to make it enjoyable to someone with the concentration span of an insect.
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Old 22 Oct 2019, 13:13 (Ref:3936232)   #12
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Originally Posted by chavez View Post
Minimum sector time is the key here.
No. This is inconsistent. Someone would have to work out a time for each sector and then monitor it, which could still mean they're too fast in the dangerous bit.

Having worked trackside, and also flagged for races using Slow Zones (just one section of the track), Code 60 and VSC, I'm satisfied they do the job of keeping marshals safe and allowing speedy access to a driver in a hazardous situation. And without question, they do the job better than every other method available.

SC doesn't do this for the reasons mentioned earlier - racing back to the start line/pit lane. And it allows for the sort of nonsense we saw at Pukekohe/Bathurst. I haven't seen any situation where bunching the cars up is more useful than running them at slow pace.

At amateur level, it may not be possible to limit the cars properly, at every professional or semi-professional level it is.
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Old 22 Oct 2019, 21:42 (Ref:3936302)   #13
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Originally Posted by PVDA View Post
Was going to post this in the Bathurst thread but it would get lost in the whole penalty thing going on at the moment.

As a person who works on track during Safety Car incidents I believe I am qualified to comment on this subject unlike may keyboard warriors out here in cyber space.

At the AASA sanctioned AMRS Wakefield round yesterday one of the GT-1 cars binned it into the gravel trap at turn 2, a Code 40 (cars simply use the Pit Lane limiter) was called using a count down on the Race Management Channel and by the end of the count down all cars were expected to have slowed to 40 under a full course yellow situation.

The car was quickly extricated from the gravel and sent on his way and once the Safety & Recovery vehicles that responded had safely cleared the circuit restored to Green after a short count down on the Race Management channel.

I'm pretty sure the cars did less than a full lap at 40 km/h, under a normal Safety Car deployment it would've been 2-3 laps.

I was in Race Control coordinating the Emergency response to this by radio with the two vehicles responded and discussed this with my team members who responded to the incident at the end of the days racing and all commented how much safer they felt knowing the cars were doing 40 everywhere and not speeding past like they would under Safety Car.

It also allowed immediate response of the two vehicles as the cars immediately slowed to 40 and were not racing around to catch the Safety Car train so it also improves driver safety with faster responses as we do not need to wait for the field to slow down to get out there.

Everyone needs to forget about the consequences to the results for individual cars, drivers or teams, this MUST be looked at from the perspective of MARSHAL & DRIVER SAFETY only.

There has already been too many near misses with marshals under Safety Car to not bring in either a Code 40 or Code 60 immediately.

Oh, one car was penalised with a Drive Through for not slowing quickly enough to 40 compared with other cars around him yesterday.

Here is a link to the Code 40 period of the GT-1 race at the AMRS round at Wakefield yesterday from the Blendline TV's live stream. https://youtu.be/9_SxuXbzgS8?t=11609
Thanks for the intelligent idea, you should be working at CAMS... oops no you shouldnt, you have too much common sense. Seriously this is a good idea, costs nothing, and makes the clean up quicker.

An alternative for tracks like Bathurst which have the steep climb up through the cutting would be to use the pit limiter going past the crash site and 80kph everywhere else. The teams have the capability to do this. Maybe even stipulate that the cars must be in 1st gear, the officials can monitor that one. Exclusion from the race as the penality for not being in 1st gear.
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Old 23 Oct 2019, 04:27 (Ref:3936336)   #14
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I like it, even for non-critical things like car recovery as in Pukekohe, it would allow quicker response/access, chew up fewer laps in the process and interfere less with the race result.

How many rpm would a Supercar be doing at 40? I wouldn't be surprised if they couldn't still make it up the Cutting.
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Old 23 Oct 2019, 22:18 (Ref:3936469)   #15
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Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
Some states have the "slow to 40" for flashing lights/first responder in regards to road cars. A lot of time was put into working out the appropriate passing speed - 40km increased survivability by a large amount.
and the trial found to be dangerous on NSW highways...

https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov...ace/index.html
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