Where are the Rallycross drivers?

[chasing cars]

Originally Posted by Larry Carter

As a lifelong fan of rallycross, and a relatively new competitor, as long as there are different factions pulling in different directions, then rallycross will struggle.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, only when Peter Stott and Pat Doran get together and offer competitors a SINGLE British Championship, then, especailly in these recession-hit times, will grids start improving.

This was certainly the case a few years ago but now I doubt the Dorans would feel there was any benefit to the BRC if the 2 championships were amalgamated as it would seem the open is in a real mess. Losing Croft was a huge blow, use to really enjoy my annual trip up north but the Superprix was becoming less super each year and I cant see that improving with its move to Knockhill.
I would like to think that a well promoted BRC round at Croft, not in winter and not clashing with an ERC round so that Kevin Proctor & hopefully Liam would enter would see a good crowd as from my visits there I know there is alot of enthusiasm for the sport.
All in all my belief is we do only have 1 main championship now and its for everyone to get behind it. It would be good to see Bill (GM) given some role maybe with a mic as was previously suggested as his enthusiasm & knowledge can only benefit the sport.

[leonidas]

Is there actually any hard EVIDENCE that rallycross is affected by the recession more severely than any other motorsport?

Yes the Open series is in big trouble but plenty of people predicted this at the beginning of the year. No Croft and Lydden plus a poor calendar sealed their fate.

The only real criticism one can make of the BRC is that just as the recession hit it launched an new expensive class (suzuki) and ditched the budget class (stock hatch). If you want to attract budget racers you need to promote a cheap class as the core of your business model - not marginalise it.

TV is important but it needs to be part of a wider initiative to raise the profile of rallycross - in motoring magazines, at shows and in the general interest media.

[chunder]

I would suggest that a combination of things have contributed.

A hell of a lot of competitors have been affected by the lack of dates at Croft and this has kileld the OPen series, many are also feeling perhaps that rallying or other forms of motorsport are better value for money. Therefore, things like autograss and short oval racing appeal more. And perhaps some drivers are simply unable to compete due to budget constraints and are sitting tight.


The rallycross Junior thing is simply a training ground for future rally drivers and though great for them to start in Rallyx, they never have any intention of staying.

Larry speaks common sense (and has no-one to wind up here) and has been involved in PR and championships a zillion times biggger than rallycross and knows that this can't go on realistically.

It takes a bit of foresight to help things along and BSB are doing a great job this year of introducing a new budget superbike class to try and smooth the transition from factory bikes to cheaper machines in coming years.

I am not sure there is enough interest in rallycross to do these kinds of things. A budget 4wd class is a great idea, as are budget modified classes, though am not sure how that works.

Group N seems costly, Super 2000 not as much but still very new.

My only hope Europe wide is that the WRC machines that will soon be away from WRC might become available, but they are hardly cheap!

Difficult times ahead me thinks, maybe a return to Escorts, Minis and Porsches again! It works for the Scandinavians!

[chasing cars]

Originally Posted by chunder

Difficult times ahead me thinks, maybe a return to Escorts, Minis and Porsches again! It works for the Scandinavians!

Also works in rallying, mk2s gallore & plenty of Porsches & not just in the historic events. I thought the revivals class in rallycross would be a big success but it seems to have bitten the dust too.

[Citroen Manic]

Originally Posted by :) RallyX

We have no problems with entries for events and drivers are as enthusiastic as ever!.. I am very positive about the future of Rallycross.

So Mallory will get a record entry petrhaps?. The british championship seems to attract about only 40ish entries inc 150,S (not rallycross cars!!). The others are BTRDA or MDA. More than the british championship can muster LONG LIVE THE BRITISH CHAMPIONSHIP!!. It does however stick in my throat that money will prevail over what is proper for the majority of competitors.

[Stephen H]

so does the uk need "folk racing" as a feeder for rallycross?

it did feature on top gear a while back

[Stephen H]

realise the msa could be a problem, but Rod Birley overcome that with the barc rallycross events, stock hatch v stock rods and group a hot rods for those winter events.

Not suggesting a competition, rallyx v oval, but a chance for oval formula to have a go at rallycross.

There has been talk of Arena Essex, being under threat because of the Olympics, not sure if this is still the case, and Coombe Valley raceway was under threat last year, with a change in the land owner, it survived with fewer dates.

But maybe now is the time to sow a few seeds of interest, incase either track should be lost in the future.

Lydden is ideally placed. The "hot rods" and "super rods" from dover have competed at the Lydden oval days. And race on a loose surface at Coombe Valley.

Pri Group A Hot Rods have already tasted rallycross in the past.

Would a lighting rod get round Lydden Rallycross circuit?

Just a thought a rallycross style event for oval formula. Drivers have come from the ovals in the past and competed in Rallycross.

And Lydden has strong oval connections, Spedeworth in the distance past, Bill Chessons 3 in 1 meetings and Festival of Speed events featuring PRI formula, and in the Tom Bissett days there was the inter saloons series racing at Northampton and Lydden.

[AndyS]

Larry Carter's post is pretty spot on really. Croft was blighted by poor weather in 2008 and 2009 and not just for the rallycross. Losing Croft has pretty much killed the ROC. For drivers and fans in the North the trek to Lydden is not particularly appealing more than once a year. As is pointed out some will be lost to other forms of motor sport.

Yes, the profile of the BRC has been lifted significantly by the Doran's money, but as I think Citreon Manic pointed out the entries for the actual BRC are quite low. The numbers are coming via the BTRDA and MDA at the events that run on the same bill.

I'm not sure where they are going with the class structure. I'll be honest I don't like one make series, but I really don't understand the Swifts. The cost is too similar to the RX's and surely it would be better to have one rather than both and all the drivers together in one class.

The BRC, BTRDA, MDA and refugees from the ROC should get together and come up with a simple class structure of about 6 classes that provides a ladder through the sport to suit all budgets and one that is understandable to the casual observer.

[chasing cars]

Originally Posted by Citroen Manic

So Mallory will get a record entry petrhaps?.

I doubt it as firstly it clashes with the Belgoum ERC & secondly most of the Open drivers have already been competeing in either the BRC or BTRDA this year. I agree entries havnt been great in the BRC particually in super mods but to the casual spectator & even regular fans they treat the event as one & the btrda & mda have given us good entries and some superb racing.When the MDA raced with the open their entries were included in the overall entry list & i believe loseing them has also greatly contributed to the Opens problems.

In a British championship money will always talk, its important that there are some big budget drivers or the series would take on a much less professional look but yes the smaller budget driver must be looked after as well and this is what the BTRDA are doing. But there should be an opportunity for those drivers to then move into a class in the BRC & be competitive without breaking the bank. Its not really possible in super mods where it now seems you have to spend huge bucks even for an average car or take 2 years to build something & still spend big money and the Suzukis are not everyones cup of tea.

[Hickey]

I am a little confused by this thread. Whilst it is a shame that the RxOC seems to have fallen by the wayside, it is perhaps not surprising given the cruel blow of losing Croft, meaning they had to gamble on other venues, and again had no luck. Maybe they will come back stronger next year.

However, the BRC is doing well. You can split hairs saying that all the entries are not just the BRC, but the MDA and BTRDA but I don't really see what your point is. As Chasing Cars says above, when spectating this doesnt matter, I am sure that the stock hatch drivers dont care that they are in the BTRDA as they are still racing in quite decent sized grids (compared to when BRC and BTRDA stock hatch split the pack). In fact it's even better for entry level as you only need a National B licence, right?

The Swifts have provided good racing and the entries at just under 10 have surprised a few people, not to mention bringing guest racers in. The RX150s are entertaining, fact. And all this reduces entry fees for competitors, leads to a full day's racing for spectators etc etc. So, honestly, as (and I quote) "lifelong fans", who cares? You think that this is the only motorsport around that has different championships competing on the same day?! Entries are up on last year (though take the point re supermods, that's a shame to have lost some people) and the racing has been good. Plus the ERC is back. Plus there are some really top supercar machinery on show. Plus the BRC is now going out live. Plus we are back on terrestrial TV. Why so sad? I'm optimistic for 2011.

[AndyS]

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying things are going backwards, anything but really. But the BRC entries in isolation are also down on previous years, not because of anything they are doing but as a result of the lack of funds at present. That was the point I was trying to get at. I think trying to tidy up and reduce the number of classes would help concentrate entries and could create a ladder through the sport. Just a thought that's all.

[Hickey]

How many classes are in the BRC now? Supercar, supermods, Swifts, RX150, then BTRDA modifieds, BTRDA stock-hatch, MDA mincross and juniors. Maybe the BRC and BTRDA modifieds could be mixed (this would include all the "revivals" classes from the RxOC, and should therefore have good numbers) and then we would have 7, self-contained and easily identifiable classes, with entry level classes, and some of the more monied ones too. Pretty good mix, I reckon.

[AndyS]

I'd be more tempted to split the Super Mods and Mods as there are huge differences in performance of some vehicles. That would mean getting rid of some of the other classes. For me Juniors just is'nt getting the entries so I'd probably drop that. As before I'd only keep one of the one make series to try and concentrate entries. Personally I prefer the RX's. So that would leave us with Supercar, Super Mod, Modified, Stock Hatch, Minicross, RX150 (Swifts if you prefer). Juniors could always be added back in at a later date if there was enough demand.

[Barrie]

Originally Posted by AndyS

I'd be more tempted to split the Super Mods and Mods as there are huge differences in performance of some vehicles. That would mean getting rid of some of the other classes. For me Juniors just is'nt getting the entries so I'd probably drop that. As before I'd only keep one of the one make series to try and concentrate entries. Personally I prefer the RX's. So that would leave us with Supercar, Super Mod, Modified, Stock Hatch, Minicross, RX150 (Swifts if you prefer). Juniors could always be added back in at a later date if there was enough demand.

How about Div 1, Div 1A, Div 2, and Supernational? Oh yea and one championship.

[Chessmsport]

Originally Posted by Barrie

How about Div 1, Div 1A, Div 2, and Supernational? Oh yea and one championship.

Is that not how the Open started ? Its a shame ROC has not taken off I supported it in the begining as I thought the Euro classes were the way to go. British drivers dont seem interested in Div1a or Div2.

All this talk of feeder catergories, well surely the MDA/BTRDA/BRC package has this Minicross, Stock Hatch and BTRDA modifieds. People dont seem to realise that the most competitive stock hatches cost as much as a Suzuki Swift to run.

What I find interesting is the most competitive and biggest national championship, the French, has no feeder catergories.

[dcdesign]

Yes, the french championship hasn't got a cheap entry class, but that is good, because rallycross in france isn't cheap business...

When D1a was introduced in Belgium, we had a handfull of cars... one -1400 AX, from a guy building a saxo, but he wanted already have some points, a Honda Civic, 2 stock Saxo VTS, and i think that it was all of that, maybe i forgot someone...

when Div1a was introduced in France last year, they counted already +20 cars... no selfbuilt, most of them official S1600 machinery... French rallycross has big budgets, they are safe for the future...

and they've always got a feeder category... Saxo challenge, C2 challenge, Dacia Logan Cup...

[daz2202]

[QUOTE=Chessmsport;2733387]
People dont seem to realise that the most competitive stock hatches cost as much as a Suzuki Swift to run.

QUOTE]

My stock hatch is a very competitive front running car, 3k to build on the track is a lot different to 15k +. and secondhand parts are a lot cheaper from brakers and ebay than new bits for a swift. So i beg to differ with you on this one.

maybe a few of the s/h guys on here, ie adam c , dave p, martin p , ric could say what there cars stand them in, then we compare this to tony, dave, ryans and gordons swifts.

(actually Ric you shouldnt answer this one as it will prob push the stock hatch price up !!!)

Seriously tho, overall all motorsport is in decline with a recession, but hopefully when the economy settles all the cars will be out of the garages and on the track.

and in responce to someones earlier comments regarding coombe valley oval, it will be closed by end of next year if not this,

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by Chessmsport

Is that not how the Open started ? Its a shame ROC has not taken off I supported it in the begining as I thought the Euro classes were the way to go. British drivers dont seem interested in Div1a or Div2.

What I find interesting is the most competitive and biggest national championship, the French, has no feeder catergories.

Good point, as you say Div 1A and 2 just haven't taken hold here. I really like the French class structure but as another poster has stated it's big budget stuff and just could'nt see it working here.

[furby]

In reply to Daz, im with you on the 3k figure for my stockhatch, maybe a bit less, i would love to be able to do swifts but there is no way in the world that i can afford to at this moment in time.

[StockHatch782]

A bit less for mine, but in the right ballpark.

I can see how running costs for the Swift could be quite similar, though, which I think is what Chessmsport is getting at. Obviously if you break something it's dearer because the bits cost more, and getting it on track is far more money as you say, Daz, but they won't really use more fuel or tyres and the panels are kevlar so they knock out or repair more easily. It's that initial outlay which is the biggest hurdle to overcome, I reckon. Might be wrong, though.

And I think Ric's car runs on diamond dust so it's not a fair comparison!

[dougcross70's]

I note that my browser informs me that the Rallycross Open Championship web page is no more & has been pulled, does this mean that the Rallycross Open Championship is now defunked, a sad end to what could have been a good championship.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by dougcross70's

I note that my browser informs me that the Rallycross Open Championship web page is no more & has been pulled, does this mean that the Rallycross Open Championship is now defunked, a sad end to what could have been a good championship.

Perhaps just down for maintenance? The Superprix page is still up:

http://www.rallycrosssuperprix.co.uk/

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by Stephen H

so does the uk need "folk racing" as a feeder for rallycross?

it did feature on top gear a while back

Yes, I suggested that on this forum a while ago. Folk race could be a good feeder in my view. Rallycross really grew out of the very successful autocross championships of the 1960s and for a long time autocross fed rallycross. Then autocross went into decline and the obvious low cost feeder to the sport was gone.

The recent autocross revival hasn't gone very far so a folkrace rallycross support series would for me be an obvious step forward. Unfortunately some seem to think this would damage the 'professional' image of rallycross. However as you would only run folkrace alongside clubman/national B events that are not televised anyway I cannot see the problem.

You could develop folkrace regs based around existing formula - for example the closed wheel Autograss classes. Autograss classes have already raced at the Blyton rallycross track so I can't see there would be a serious MSA difficulty?