Spectators Killed in California

[Craig]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10978569

[marcel82]

this article (in Dutch) claims the driver had to escape the people who survived, when they attacked him and threw rocks at him.

when you see the video CNN has on their website, people are so close to the road, if they'd stretch out their arms, they'd lose it. cars are coming by in close succesion. any loss is to be avoided, and I feel for the families and loved of the people who got killed, but: don't blame the driver for racing, blame yourselves for you reckless behaviour.

[jonesi]

http://tsn.ca/auto_racing/story/?id=330595

[rich_cooper]

why attack the driver ????


Massive shame. R.I.P to all that have died

[mountainstar]

I guess physics was not these folks strong point. You can't stand 10 feet from flying trucks and not have a lot of risk. I can't blame the driver, people have to have some personal responsibility for their own actions.

Sad obviously but I hope there isn't a stupid witch hunt.

[Gil Abobeleira]

Rally of Portugal 1986 all over again?

RIP to those who perished.

[mountainstar]

Besides the indy racing league, this is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LbGL84MOHA

[Craig]

Crazy redneck lunatics are lucky the truck following didn't wipe a few more out.

[rich_cooper]

how close to the track are they!!!!!

They are stupid close

[Hickey]

I think it is a bit (very) harsh calling them stupid. People have lost their lives. Of course it is so dangerous that it borders on negligent, that they are allowed to stand so close to the track, in dim light, with very short intervals between the cars. This should never have happened, which makes it all the more tragic, but to call them stupid is offensive.

Are you telling me that you wouldnt go quite a bit closer to the the track at rallycross if you could? Are you the same people who have an issue with health and safety and catch fences etc?! People seek thrills, which is why we participate in and spectate at the sport; the organisers (or in this case lack thereof) are the ones who have to strike a balance between punter satisfaction and safety. That balance was way off the mark here, lessons should have been learnt from 1980s WRC and I hope this doesnt happen again aywhere.

(I also hope this doesn't trigger a "reduce power of cars, have fences at WRC" etc knee-jerk reaction)

[old man]

This incident is also discussed on another thread and we can only offer our condolences to those involved. Rally spectator control is still not all that wonderful IMO and I fear for another incident in that sector of our sport.

We pay fees for licences to both participate and organise events and I assume this was an "ad hoc" event rather than one being run under some orgainising body licence. Legal action is now inevitable

[rich_cooper]

Originally Posted by Hickey

I think it is a bit (very) harsh calling them stupid. People have lost their lives. Of course it is so dangerous that it borders on negligent, that they are allowed to stand so close to the track, in dim light, with very short intervals between the cars. This should never have happened, which makes it all the more tragic, but to call them stupid is offensive.

Are you telling me that you wouldnt go quite a bit closer to the the track at rallycross if you could? Are you the same people who have an issue with health and safety and catch fences etc?! People seek thrills, which is why we participate in and spectate at the sport; the organisers (or in this case lack thereof) are the ones who have to strike a balance between punter satisfaction and safety. That balance was way off the mark here, lessons should have been learnt from 1980s WRC and I hope this doesnt happen again aywhere.

(I also hope this doesn't trigger a "reduce power of cars, have fences at WRC" etc knee-jerk reaction)

I never called them stupid

I said they was stupid close

Yes everyone would love to get abit closer to the action but you should no when you are too close.

I dont blame the speccies, you do have to question the organisers. From what ive read this is a section that gets alot of people at it every year. Its never good when people are killed watching motorsport!

But i think the people who attacked the driver are STUPID people. This tragedy was not his fault!

[Al Weyman]

How on earth can you live with that how do you deal with it? I wouldnt be surprised if there is another death shortly, a suicide.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Hickey

I think it is a bit (very) harsh calling them stupid. People have lost their lives. Of course it is so dangerous that it borders on negligent, that they are allowed to stand so close to the track, in dim light, with very short intervals between the cars. This should never have happened, which makes it all the more tragic, but to call them stupid is offensive.

Are you telling me that you wouldnt go quite a bit closer to the the track at rallycross if you could? Are you the same people who have an issue with health and safety and catch fences etc?! People seek thrills, which is why we participate in and spectate at the sport; the organisers (or in this case lack thereof) are the ones who have to strike a balance between punter satisfaction and safety. That balance was way off the mark here, lessons should have been learnt from 1980s WRC and I hope this doesnt happen again aywhere.

(I also hope this doesn't trigger a "reduce power of cars, have fences at WRC" etc knee-jerk reaction)

If not stupid, it's dumb. Maybe the best phrase is tragic stupidity. And yes I do have compassion for those that died. No one wants to go to any race and die, certainly. And I know their families are in pain and I pray for them most of all.

Yes in this world there are freak accidents despite all sorts of health and safety regulating going on. Any one of us can have that happen to us.

But it angers me because this was so preventable. And the responsibility for it I put on the spectators. They barely left enough room for the vehicle, much less any run off room, plus were running across the road as well. It doesn't take an expect in physics to figure all this out. It was only a matter of time before a Darwin Award was won.

I believe in free will though and it is what it is. People want to stand in front of a trophy truck at 80 MPH, well so be it.

Ever see photos of the 1970 Mexico GP with the guy laying on the grass at the apex of the corner? On one hand I find that dangerous to all, but on the other hand if one wants to be squashed flat by an F1 car at 150 mph, it is what it is.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

How on earth can you live with that how do you deal with it? I wouldnt be surprised if there is another death shortly, a suicide.

If people goad that driver into suicide, well that's ridiculous. It doesn't solve anything. It wasn't like that driver drove 150 feet off course over a berm to run people over. Listening to some of the spectators that were there, they know they were in the wrong.

We also don't know yet the entire circumstances and the drivers perspective, someone may have ran out in front of him or something, but I want to hear the story from the driver and passengers perspective.

The California Highway Patrol is investigating and they have one of the best accident recreation teams around, so I am sure all the answers will come out.

[Al Weyman]

I wasnt talking about goading the poor guy I was trying to be syphaphetic I sincerely hope he can live with it not sure I would have the strength and wish him peace.

[thebear]

A different report stated that as the truck landed from the jump one wheel hit a large rock which started the incedent. The visibility was marginal due to the setting sun and there was no possibility of avoiding the rock once the truck was airborne. As the people who made Koni shocks once stated "It is impossible to control a vehicle if the wheels are not on the ground".

[tbtstt]

Very sad for all involved but, when you watch desert racing events like this and the Baja 500/1000, you have to wonder how there aren't more spectator casulties.

People get closer and closer to the cars until the inevitable happens.

[Hepatic]

its one of the few forms of motorsport left where vehicles run that fast but demarcation between track and spectator area is minimal, if it exists at all. i was a spectator on the rally GB when Sainz went straight on at the end of a long straight and ploughed thru about 12 people. thankfully no one was seriously injured in that, but as me and my girlfriend were walking up the stage before it opened, we contemplated watching from there and looking at it from a drivers point of view decided against it because there wasn't much in the way of cover or an easy exit. we were proven right, sadly.

everyone has a part to play in running an event like that safely. good instruction and notices of where to/not to stand. where needed, signage or barriers / tape to guide people away from potential hazard areas. and common sense from the spectators. i can't see how anyone could blame the driver for such an incident, other than heat of the moment. i'm with Al, the guy must feel terrible. living with that kind of incident will be hard, i doubt he'll go near a rally car again rather like the unfortunate markko martin.

painful as it is, everyone needs to take a long hard look at this one and learn everything they can from it. what's done is done but to ignore the warnings its made so clear and to have something similar to happen again will be an even bigger tragic waste of their lives.

[cmk]

A tragic accident, but has been mentioned before, it is not the driver's fault that spectators died and the notion of people attacking him - even in the immediate throes of grief - is reprehensible. They should be ashamed as well as saddened.

Ultimately the culpability falls to a) the organizer, if there was any legal impression given that they were to be responsible for demarcating suitable viewing zones in that area and b), most strongly, to the spectators themselves. As the story above about the RAC suggests, it is ultimately not a matter of rocket science to figure out both a suitable distance and location for viewing based on what would happen if a car exits the track in the most likely few directions at any given point. Nobody expects or deserves to die at a motor race, but you only need to look at almost any footage of a WRC event held in Portugal to see that, in some cases, most don't behave in a manner which would suggest that.

My thoughts are with the families of those who lost their lives, but also with the driver. The Markko Martin example is a poignant one - you can never go home again.

[bravo]

I'm always amazed that people stand outside a corner, and downhill of a rally stage. I've only a few years of Rally-X experience but I hope I've learnt never to underestimate how far a car can run, roll, or bits come off it - and all of them hold enough potential to be deadly.

RIP all those who have perished. For everyone else, it's time to learn and learn fast.