No Spa after 2003 till 2006??

[Spritle]

Now that the Belgian Senate officially voted to ban tobacco sponsorship at ALL sporting events, including F1 beginning in 2004, does this mean no Spa till 2006??

I guess I'm a little confused since isn't it the same deal as at Silverstone? Or does the Belgian ban mean no sponsorship while the UK ban is just on adverts.

In either case I think Bernie is looking for an excuse to drop a race to fit in the new venues and maybe he's got it now that he backed off the Silverstone threat.

[Maxmil]

Bernie is playing King Knute on this one and trying singlehanded to hold back the tide. Tobacco Sponsorship is going. Period. Taking the Spa off the calendar in the hope of coercing the Belgian Government into making an exception to their law is just plain stupid. Bernie should be out trying to promote new sponsorship for the teams rather than threatening one of the last great race venues. I think his years are starting to tell. The Silverstone fit is another example.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Spritle
including F1 beginning in 2004, does this mean no Spa till 2006??

If theres at no race at Spa from 2004 i don't think we'll see it back after 2006 sadly. If Spa goes from the calander it will be very sad for Formula 1.

[BootsOntheSide]

Spa has to be the greatest track in modern F1. We lost the Old Nurburgring for largely practical reasons, we lost the old Osterreichring but at least the new one has seen some good races (including 70.95 laps this year), we've seen Monza and Imola hobbled by gutless officials (the kind who want us all to live our lives in darkened rooms away from any form of danger or freedom), all terrible but bearable.

This, though, would be somethng different.

This would be international laws affecting sport, and Bernie's personal greed and love of stabbing fans in the Formula 1 heartlands in the back, just to rake in more money for himself, or try to promote F1 in nations with no pedigree (Malaysia, Japan, Hungary and Spain, of which only Japan can be classed as a good circuit (2nd or 3rd best aorund now).

[M Coupe]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
or try to promote F1 in nations with no pedigree (Malaysia, Japan, Hungary and Spain, of which only Japan can be classed as a good circuit (2nd or 3rd best aorund now).

What do you class as pedigree??

Spain have had GP's for years Montjuich Park, Jarama, Jerez and now Barcelona, and Japan have had Honda in F1 for a long time, including stints in the 60's.

Hungary should go, not for where it is but because the circuit is terrible for racing. Malaysia is a good circuit.

[Jordi]

Spain (and Catalonia) is a nation with pedigree, especially in tracks, if not in drivers (although this has changed)

[Nicholas]

It seems that Bernie never loses...

[Damon]

Spa is THE last great race track on the calender, if its dropped it will be terrible for F1. Bernie, people are turning off in droves, for gods sake take a look past that massive pile of money in front of you and take note of at least some of what the fans want.

[Red]

Originally posted by Damon
[...] and take note of at least some of what the fans want.

I'm not sure what you want but I want Formula 1. Trouble is that without sponsor's money the show does not go on. So actually allowing Spa in the calendar but noone shows up hurts more than let's say a GP in China.

By the way, people are not turning off in droves. Besides it is a strong connection between the number of fans and Bernie's pile of money.

[Speedworx]

Spa will probably be lost to F1, which people will miss. Its slot will get filled by race somewhere else in the world.

[paul-collins]

Originally posted by Red
Trouble is that without sponsor's money the show does not go on.

In its current form.

It will go on. F1 is not tobacco incarnate.

Maybe it's time to take car design back to tube frame. Banish the last of Colin Chapman's innovations. If Bill France Jr had his way, it'd be a done deal.

[Valve Bounce]

.....for F1. It appears that F1 has been using all sorts of deceptive means to keep tobacco adverts on our TV's even after most countries including Australia had banned them. So Spa is to be sacrificed for Bernie's holy dollar.
I have already written in another thread about the strong influence wielded by Shanghai main supporter Zu Rhongi, and now it also appears that a Saudi Prince might be behind a GP in either Egypt, or Dubai. Obviously there is money, oodles of it to be made by switching to countries where the dollar sign rules, not to mention that it would be easier to circumvent tobacco adverts in these countries.

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

[Red]

Originally posted by paul-collins
It will go on. F1 is not tobacco incarnate.

Maybe it's time to take car design back to tube [...]

Of course F1 is not tobacco incarnate. But most of the money, now, come from tobacco. How many race do we have where tobacco ads are not allowed? 4? 5? Anyway, they won't be willing to pay that much money if they don't have the TV coverage.

Of course the teams have to find alternative solutions to dig for money, this is already a problem but they still have several years at their disposal. But since we already have such races frankly I don't see such an acute problem.

As for the other point (take car designs back...) nope. We already have zillions of series that fits those descriptions, even single seaters open-wheels. Why do you need another one? It's easier to just switch your TV to onother channel.

[Number Juan]

dammit Bernie you've done it again.

[f1manoz]

This is a shame if there is truth behind the rumour. Spa is one of the last great circuits left on the calender alongside most of today's sterilised and uninteresting circuits, and also one of the last links to the heroic days of 40 years ago.

But this race has been under a cloud now for quite a few years. Every year is supposedly the last in Belgium, but every year it is back on the calender. I don't think we have anything to worry about.

[kdr]

you'll still be able to see the gt's at spa

[Red]

Whoa, hold on guys. That's not a rumor! Not even after 18-07-2002 14:19 (GMT+2) So actually Bernie "has NOT done it. Let alone again."

Furthermore, since Spa is in next year's calendar (even provisional) the idea of droping it because for 2 years they could benefit from tobacco ads somewhere else is quite ridiculous. 2 years.... sheese, it takes more to actually build and homologate a Formula 1 track.

[paul-collins]

Originally posted by Red
As for the other point (take car designs back...) nope. We already have zillions of series that fits those descriptions, even single seaters open-wheels.

Ah, Red, I think you missed my joke. I was suggesting we wipe out the legacy of Colin Chapman (the greatest innovator in F1). He introduced the monocoque, the stressed engine, wings, the ground effects (the aero things were being done in Can-Am, but he brought them over) and Tobacco Sponsorship. Ground effects are gone. Tobacco is next. Then...

It was a joke, see?

Maybe I should present this from a north american, ALMS versus Grand Am perspective. I'm primarily a sportscar fan, and ALMS in particular (where technology isn't disdained). Bill France Jr. is the owner of NASCAR and Grand Am, and he's dumbing down Grand Am with his new Grand Am Sports Prototype.

[Red]

Yes Paul I see! Now. But as a matter of facts every suggestion to improve the "racing" that comes from an angry fan proposes exactly that! So please excuse me for being oversensitive at times

PS:

Originally posted by paul-collins
He introduced [...] and Tobacco Sponsorship

Brilliant!