Safety car shambles - Page 4

manwell · 10 Nov 2009, 10:43 (Ref:2579414)

Has VESA/CAMS come out yet and acknowledged that they majorly f-ed up, what penalty they are giving themselves and what they are doing do make sure it doesnt happen again?
Although i dont think we ever recieved an explanation over the Gold Coast shambles either did we.?

STEALTHY · 10 Nov 2009, 10:56 (Ref:2579431)

Quote:

Originally Posted by manwell

Although i dont think we ever recieved an explanation over the Gold Coast shambles either did we.?

If your talking about the regrid behind the safety car, then nothing will ever happen. It was explained that is what they'd do in those circumstances.

BFC · 10 Nov 2009, 11:22 (Ref:2579445)

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

If your talking about the regrid behind the safety car, then nothing will ever happen. It was explained that is what they'd do in those circumstances.

well why didnt they do it in the previous race?

STEALTHY · 10 Nov 2009, 11:45 (Ref:2579455)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFC

well why didnt they do it in the previous race?

Was there an incident at the first corner causing ALOT of people to gain an advantage by shortcutting the chicane?

**Woolley** · 10 Nov 2009, 13:52 (Ref:2579511)

Or you can do it even better with fewer stages - post amended in bold to show how simple it should be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I16

OK - a problem is reported to C of C and it is serious!
Full yellow comes on then waved yellow and SC boards are shown at all points.
All cars slow in response to flags and boards
SC is then deployed with flashing yellows in front of already slowed leader next time he reaches the pit exit (whether on track or from pit lane)under the direct control of C of C to control the competing cars.

Eveyone seems fixated with how to get the safety car out, but that is a secondary matter. The important thing is to slow the competing cars safely so that track marshals can get to work, and when they're slowed it's simple to place the Safety Car at the head of the pack to keep them to the right pace and, if necessary, guide them safely through the incident site.

Trevor · 10 Nov 2009, 19:14 (Ref:2579687)

One of the unsafest practices they have that makes track side officials vunerable is to have pit lane open during safety car periods.

Matthew Ronke · 10 Nov 2009, 19:57 (Ref:2579709)

I wonder if Mr Skaife and Mr Crompton will recieve thesame tap on the shoulder?

from thats racin.

Quote:

France wants broadcasters to cull criticism NASCAR chairman Brian France says he wants TV broadcasters that work NASCAR events to call the sport like those in other sports do and limit their areas of criticism.

France made the comments in an exclusive interview with The Roanoke Times before Sunday's race at Texas Motor Speedway.

The sport has been battered by critical comments from TV broadcasters the past two weeks, starting with a roundtable discussion in The Roanoke Times with Larry McReynolds, Jimmy Spencer and Kyle Petty. NASCAR spokesman Ramsey Poston posted a blog entry questioning some of their comments.

Last week, Poston wrote a blog entry criticizing comments made by ABC's broadcasters about the racing at Talladega.

Sunday, France spoke publicly for the first time on the issue.

''Clearly, this is a sport that has a lot of opinions," France said. "Most other sports channel their thoughts and criticisms differently. That is an unusual thing that we have, to have people within the sport openly just criticizing 1/8NASCAR3/8 as we go along, but maybe that's something very unique in NASCAR that no other sport has to sort out. We'll sort it out."

France noted that he is not against all forms of criticism.

''We welcome criticism on calls that are made, strategy, policy; that goes with the territory," he said. "What we'll ask the commentators to do, they're professionals, and to look at how other professional commentators call other sports. They work with professional networks. They are professionals in their own right. At some point they have to be professionals and that will be that."

France said he did not contact any officials from ABC or ESPN about last weekend's Talladega broadcast. He also noted he did not see the entire race.

Armageddon · 10 Nov 2009, 20:22 (Ref:2579719)

You guys think we have issues, have a look at this from the WTCC.

Safety car Crash in WTCC

STEALTHY · 10 Nov 2009, 23:03 (Ref:2579807)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

One of the unsafest practices they have that makes track side officials vunerable is to have pit lane open during safety car periods.

That has nothing to do with it. If the field slow down, it doesn't matter if the pits are open or not.

V8 Fireworks · 10 Nov 2009, 23:13 (Ref:2579810)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woolley

Or you can do it even better with fewer stages - post amended in bold to show how simple it should be.

Eveyone seems fixated with how to get the safety car out, but that is a secondary matter. The important thing is to slow the competing cars safely so that track marshals can get to work, and when they're slowed it's simple to place the Safety Car at the head of the pack to keep them to the right pace and, if necessary, guide them safely through the incident site.

Yeah, they gotta bring back the close the pits so they don't "race" under SC.

Ruin some driver's races? Tough.

Trevor · 10 Nov 2009, 23:23 (Ref:2579818)

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

That has nothing to do with it. If the field slow down, it doesn't matter if the pits are open or not.

BUT that real FACT is they don't, I have been out there exposed to it and they don't slow down, they are trying like **** to catch the end of the train.

I have said on here before that the only way to control their speeds is for race control to push a big red button that engages all their pit lane speed limiters at once and that just ain't gonna happen.

Talk reality STEALTHY, not fantasy.

Armageddon · 10 Nov 2009, 23:29 (Ref:2579827)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

BUT that real FACT is they don't, I have been out there exposed to it and they don't slow down, they are trying like **** to catch the end of the train.

I have said on here before that the only way to control their speeds is for race control to push a big red button that engages all their pit lane speed limiters at once and that just ain't gonna happen.

Talk reality STEALTHY, not fantasy.

What's the difference between a car coming from the pits and trying to catch back up compared to a car that has been recovered from a Sand Trap and trying to cath up?

bludvl_x19 · 10 Nov 2009, 23:48 (Ref:2579838)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armageddon

What's the difference between a car coming from this pits and trying to catch back up compared to a car that has been recovered from a Sand Tarp and trying to cath up?

The car leaving pit lane and trying to get the train won't have been the one that caused the sc in the first place

STEALTHY · 10 Nov 2009, 23:54 (Ref:2579840)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

BUT that real FACT is they don't, I have been out there exposed to it and they don't slow down, they are trying like **** to catch the end of the train.

I have said on here before that the only way to control their speeds is for race control to push a big red button that engages all their pit lane speed limiters at once and that just ain't gonna happen.

Talk reality STEALTHY, not fantasy.

I'm fully aware of what they do and dont do. Every post in this thread i've drummed home that there needs to be some sort of mandated track speed when its full course yellow/SC.

The reality is, they(VESA) wouldn't want that because it has 0 entertainment value if everyone has to drive at the same speed.

STEALTHY · 10 Nov 2009, 23:55 (Ref:2579842)

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Yeah, they gotta bring back the close the pits so they don't "race" under SC.

Ruin some driver's races? Tough.

Still doesn't solve the problem of the warp speed race to catch the train.....

**Woolley** · 11 Nov 2009, 00:01 (Ref:2579845)

Can you not report for 'excessive speed under safety car conditions'? I guess it depends what happens to the report if you do. I've done the same for speed under a red flag for a Touring Car series up here, but with nothing done by race control. Pinged the same car 3 times in one day before giving up wasting my breath.

STEALTHY · 11 Nov 2009, 00:05 (Ref:2579847)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woolley

Can you not report for 'excessive speed under safety car conditions'? I guess it depends what happens to the report if you do. I've done the same for speed under a red flag for a Touring Car series up here, but with nothing done by race control. Pinged the same car 3 times in one day before giving up wasting my breath.

Thats a problem with the rules then......

Quite shocking they wouldn't even take a report.
Why was there 3 red flags on the same day?

Armageddon · 11 Nov 2009, 00:09 (Ref:2579849)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bludvl_x19

The car leaving pit lane and trying to get the train won't have been the one that caused the sc in the first place

I think you are missing my point. The concern raised is over cars 'Racing' back to the end of the train. How is a car that has been recovered racing back to the train different to a car coming from the pits? There isn;t any, both cars are racing back to the train which is where the concern is, catch up speeds.

**Woolley** · 11 Nov 2009, 00:16 (Ref:2579854)

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Thats a problem with the rules then......

Quite shocking they wouldn't even take a report.
Why was there 3 red flags on the same day?

Going off topic, a shortage of marshals coupled with lack of driving talent at the first corner gravel trap resulted in a LOT of red flags over the day. I could have reported same car 8-10 times, but RC wasn't interested.

The simple cure would be for drive through penalties on restart for cars adjudged not to have behaved properly under full course yellow. After all, marshals could be working anywhere, not just at the cause of the caution since it's a good opportunity for removing debris or attending to other problems. It's an infraction that doesn't seem to be taken seriously by anyone not trackside, though. We remember an F1 driver leaving the circuit in Melbourne, but all anyone was interested in at the time was whether another driver had/had been told to pass him.

STEALTHY · 11 Nov 2009, 01:00 (Ref:2579866)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woolley

The simple cure would be for drive through penalties on restart for cars adjudged not to have behaved properly under full course yellow. After all, marshals could be working anywhere, not just at the cause of the caution since it's a good opportunity for removing debris or attending to other problems. It's an infraction that doesn't seem to be taken seriously by anyone not trackside, though. We remember an F1 driver leaving the circuit in Melbourne, but all anyone was interested in at the time was whether another driver had/had been told to pass him.

The closest i've been to a track is in the grandstand, but even i can see there is a need for it.

They used the system well in Qualifying. They had a set limit, and f any driver went faster than that benchmark, they must have cut a chicane. Same theory could be worked for safety car/yellow times, any car who goes faster than the benchmark, means a penalty.

Sadly, this isn't much different to how things are today (and just lucky no-one was killed)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghAUR048kMA

RotorFan · 11 Nov 2009, 01:31 (Ref:2579873)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

the cost of the new fuel tanks, they were meant to be in this year meaning no CPS

Actually I think the new fuel tanks were going to be 80 litres? Anyway, not relevant to the topic.

Trevor · 11 Nov 2009, 02:09 (Ref:2579886)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armageddon

What's the difference between a car coming from the pits and trying to catch back up compared to a car that has been recovered from a Sand Trap and trying to cath up?

Do you really expect me to answer that Mr. Pedantic?

Armageddon · 11 Nov 2009, 02:22 (Ref:2579887)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

Do you really expect me to answer that Mr. Pedantic?

I'm not being pedantic, you raised the point that the concern is about cars coming from the pits and racing to the tail, I'm just saying it isn't going to matter where the cars are coming from they will still race to the tail.

Trevor · 11 Nov 2009, 06:00 (Ref:2579933)

I kinda think everyone would have gathered that, but thanks anyway. I was giving credit to people to read between the lines, but I guess I shouldn't have.

NewsStalker · 11 Nov 2009, 06:20 (Ref:2579938)

Quote:

Race Control can be very very busy and cars are traveling at high speed. When you have two or more situations happening at once there will be a delay in responding to one of them.

And if ANYONE in race control start to bleat about too many things happening at once that they can't react to them or even see them then something needs to be done (quickly) about those people (and apologies if this offends anyone who works in race control).

Unfortunately once you put more than one car on a track at once you have the potential for more than one incident to happen at a time. Put 32 and - well you do the maths!

Yes it's busy and most race control officials CAN handle these situation - they know how to prioritise things based on the reports coming in from EXPERIENCED flag marshals, observers etc.

This is where Mr. Timothy Scheken doesn't appear to be able to work effectively - he listens to what he wants to hear NOT what he is being told.

For instance, if no one in race control or at the S/F line were able to tell him where the SC was - well let's get honest about this - neither he nor anyone on his radio channel should ever work in motor sport again - it's not as if the car was over the back of the circuit invisible from the control tower or at the back of the pit garages. It was on the bloody track!

(BTW - does Schenken still continue to have his own 'personal' V8SC radios operating during the race on non-rack frequencies?)

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