2019 TCR UK rumours and discussion

[EarlCdwards]

Originally Posted by geordiecriag101

March 16th? Thats a Saturday and according to silverstone website there is no race or testing booked in for then. Might be worth a trip down to see whats going on.

It's BRSCC's first meeting, a Caterham enduro and a bunch of allcomers races.

[S griffin]

Well where TCR UK fit in? Will they be able to get the grid full in time? We will have to see what happens

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Well people have their own opinion, that’s what we are here for. NGTC is still doing well despite suggestions of other regulations coming in

I'd expect an announcement soon that the NGTC regulations will remain beyond the end of 2021 (when the current contracts expire).

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by sceptic

I'd expect an announcement soon that the NGTC regulations will remain beyond the end of 2021 (when the current contracts expire).

they already made the decision to extend ngtc when they decided on hybrid from 2021 or 2022

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Well where TCR UK fit in? Will they be able to get the grid full in time? We will have to see what happens

The 2nd question is easy - "No". The 1st question - probably nowhere, if they don't get more entries it'll get canned.

[S griffin]

Well it’s still an uncertain future. I think this series deserves a good grid

[CroftPilgrim]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

What do you think makes TCR inferior exactly? The cars do pretty much the same lap times.

The only way we'd know for sure is if they were in a head to head, but all the evidence I've seen so far is that TCR is slower.

Mainly though I base my judgement on how the FIA classes them.

I also think TCR cars don't look as good, but that's just me - nothing to do with superior or inferior spec!

[S griffin]

Well I’d be surprised if they were closely matched, TCR UK is meant to be slower. Obviously the FIA like the series as a lot of countries have adopted of it instead of other regulations

Personally I don’t think the cars look bad, even against NGTC

[Alessio]

I remember reading in the 2018 thread that the laptimes were more or less comparative with maybe a little over a seconds difference in them.

I don't think there's much doubt that technically TCR cars aren't any less refined, but they were definitely marketed as so when Lotti and the TCR UK organisers promoted the series as a 'feeder' to the NGTC cars.

Given that the World Touring Car Cup uses the same regulations, there's hardly any sense to it. It was promoted towards the wrong crowd from the off.

Breaking the BTCCs dominance in the British market was always going to be hard, but TCR worked elsewhere (Italy and Sweden both being comparable markets) and could have worked with enough ambition.

I don't think it helped the matter as well that neither TCR Int./Europe and WTCR ever considered racing at Brands/Silverstone, and haven't done so for years. To Brits, touring car racing IS the BTCC because that's all that runs here.

[Sodemo]

Certainly some of that speed would come from the fact that TCR has a target BHP of 350BHP whereas the NGTC cars have around 380BHP. So how much laptime does a reported 30BHP get you? Maybe a 1/2 of a second?

I think for the most part they are equal in terms of speed if the BHP was levelled.

[Bcarr6]

I think theres a sentiment of BTCC loyalty in some that stops open mindedness to TCR. The TCR cars are great, affordable, easy to run, create good racing, speed is ok. Beyond that, what really matters?

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

I think theres a sentiment of BTCC loyalty in some that stops open mindedness to TCR. The TCR cars are great, affordable, easy to run, create good racing, speed is ok. Beyond that, what really matters?

affordable? running a car in TCR UK is almost the same as running in BTCC but without any exposure for sponsors.
Yet to see the "good racing" but maybe if we get more than 6 or 7 cars this year that might change

[Alfisti]

The affordable argument is ********, pure and simple. There was not any good racing in any of the rounds last year. Virtually no racing, never mind good. In essence the script was:

Dan Lloyd drives off into the distance

Some other cars try and fail to keep pace

Some other cars driven by people who should just have taken a modded Golf to a track day fell over each other.

Without naming names or stating private commercial agreements there were 2 drivers on the BTCC grid in 2018 who paid an amount that was virtually the same as that another driver paid to run in TCR.

There is nothing wrong with TCR spec cars. The series in the UK is the problem; the idiots are trying to bang in another niche product into a market (in the same way certain German car firms do with road cars) and finding there is no unique selling point and no real space for it.

TOCA have the market sown up and have been delivering an excellent product for many years. That is not going to change under Alan Gows leadership.

[btccbloke]

There is a whole gaggle of decent ex BTCC drivers sitting on their back sides at the moment, either through lack of budget or motivation and some of these are real crowd favorites (Goff, Austin, Jackson to name a few). Probably the same from BGT but I admit im not close enough to the series to know who. If TCR was genuinely "affordable" and the UK arm was serious, they would be pushing to get them into the cars as a 2 finger up to BTCC asap, and start selling the series to the public, at the moment it seems no teams or drivers are that interested.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

There is a whole gaggle of decent ex BTCC drivers sitting on their back sides at the moment, either through lack of budget or motivation and some of these are real crowd favorites (Goff, Austin, Jackson to name a few). Probably the same from BGT but I admit im not close enough to the series to know who. If TCR was genuinely "affordable" and the UK arm was serious, they would be pushing to get them into the cars as a 2 finger up to BTCC asap, and start selling the series to the public, at the moment it seems no teams or drivers are that interested.

can’t imagine goff and austin trollying around with half a dozen other cars would put any bums on seats. no disrespect to those drivers but it takes a lot more than that to drag in the public or create media coverage

[medius]

The problem has always been that to buy a TCR car and run it in the championship you won't get much change from £120k not including crash costs. For that money you could do Clio's, Minis, GTs in Europe and get far better coverage for your parents/sponsors.

And now the likes of Austin, Welch etc could run the cars they own already for £20k in TCT.

No brainer, there's no place for TCR in the UK landscape unfortunately. It doesn't know if it wants the junior drivers graduating or gentleman drivers. It's failed to be value for money for either.

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

can’t imagine goff and austin trollying around with half a dozen other cars would put any bums on seats. no disrespect to those drivers but it takes a lot more than that to drag in the public or create media coverage

It should have been the series generating some form of media coverage, there were press releases but only the touring car news sites were covering much of it, all for running a budget near to the BTCC and something like 3-times that of its primary equivalent competitor, the Renault Clio Cup. Add in the difficulty of accessing parts (see Darrelle Wilson and DPE).

If it was ever going to be a support series, it should have been billed alongside or beneath British GT4. On the British GT programme, it would have attracted a bit more attention, been much more relevant, providing some of the BGT crowd with a cheaper alternative within the same paddock and a bit more prestige to attract the likes of Goff and Austin.

[Umai Naa]

TCR cars aren't that expensive or difficult to run, which is why there are nearly 800 of the things racing in all sorts of events globally.

However, running a car in TCR UK seems to be expensive. You can't charge BTCC money for something that isn't (or claims not to be) the equivilent of the BTCC in the very same pond

Perhaps the whole thing would make greater financial sense if it were on the BGT program, where teams could amortise costs and pool resources? A team with a GT3 car in it's stable, wouldn't be over-reaching to run a much less-involved TCR car at the same meeting. Teams that run in GT Open and ADAC GT Masters have been doing it for a few years now. Aren't there teams that run BTCC and BGT programs in parallel? Easy to see why some haven't considered doing TCR, as that'd be another 8 weekends of the year they'd have to contend with.

I love the concept of TCR, but as for it existing in the UK, they need to make some radical changes. Tacking it onto a club racing calender as per last season, did nothing for it. There's almost zero incentive for anyone to get involved in it. A young bloke wouldn't even do it to get his name out there. What else is there, to aspire to in the career ladder?

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

can’t imagine goff and austin trollying around with half a dozen other cars would put any bums on seats. no disrespect to those drivers but it takes a lot more than that to drag in the public or create media coverage

No its not the magic cure, but if TCRUK could turn around and say they had a 2018 grid which had: Goff, Austin, Jackson, Epps, Whorton Eals, Cole, Welch, Abbot even a Caine or Depper, that would surely generate them a bit more interest from BTCC fans, many of whom dont know anything about the series yet probably fall into the selfie brigade who follow all these on social media. if TCR were to be successful in the UK, thats who they need to be getting on side

[Mark0994]

Originally Posted by medius

The problem has always been that to buy a TCR car and run it in the championship you won't get much change from £120k not including crash costs. For that money you could do Clio's, Minis, GTs in Europe and get far better coverage for your parents/sponsors.

And now the likes of Austin, Welch etc could run the cars they own already for £20k in TCT.

No brainer, there's no place for TCR in the UK landscape unfortunately. It doesn't know if it wants the junior drivers graduating or gentleman drivers. It's failed to be value for money for either.

You sure that you can run in GT's in Europe with 120k?
I remember our drivers here talking about GT's being almost double then TCR even if they split costs with other drivers.

[Umai Naa]

Maybe GT4, as a codriver.

[Johno.UK]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

No its not the magic cure, but if TCRUK could turn around and say they had a 2018 grid which had: Goff, Austin, Jackson, Epps, Whorton Eals, Cole, Welch, Abbot even a Caine or Depper, that would surely generate them a bit more interest from BTCC fans, many of whom dont know anything about the series yet probably fall into the selfie brigade who follow all these on social media. if TCR were to be successful in the UK, thats who they need to be getting on side

BTCC is like F1. It's as popular as it is because of the mainstream TV coverage (historic now in F1's case). The only thing that would really boost the popularity of TCR would be a TV deal like BTCC but some "household" names certainly wouldn't do it any harm.

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by Johno.UK

BTCC is like F1. It's as popular as it is because of the mainstream TV coverage (historic now in F1's case). The only thing that would really boost the popularity of TCR would be a TV deal like BTCC but some "household" names certainly wouldn't do it any harm.

Thats what I mean, I think the only time armchair fans paid it any attention last year was Ash Sutton turning out for a race, but I would think hardly any then watched it on youtube. Having a whole group of known names would certainly get a few more people interested.

Even TV highlights would be good, that certainly does VW Cup and Mini challenge no harm as ive occasionally caught that on TV, but when there are 5 or 6 also rans turning out to chase Dan Lloyd round at a distance, there are no highlights to show.

Tho the argument for only being popular as its on TV doesnt seem to work for Formula E

[Motormouth94]

Originally Posted by medius

The problem has always been that to buy a TCR car and run it in the championship you won't get much change from £120k not including crash costs. For that money you could do Clio's, Minis, GTs in Europe and get far better coverage for your parents/sponsors.

Yes, but for your £120k, you get a car that can be raced in a number of TCR championships around the world. If you own a racing team, and actually want to make some money out of it, investing in 2 or 3 TCR cars makes sense. You can then potentially hire them out to 3 different drivers, in 2 or 3 different series around Europe the same year - it wouldn't take long for the cars to pay for themselves, and no need to buy new cars if your drivers decide they're ready to take the step up to the next level of TCR competition

[Motormouth94]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

Even TV highlights would be good, that certainly does VW Cup and Mini challenge no harm as ive occasionally caught that on TV, but when there are 5 or 6 also rans turning out to chase Dan Lloyd round at a distance, there are no highlights to show.

TCR UK does have TV highlights - if memory serves it was shown on Motorsport TV, and Sky Sports. Although the trend these days is actually that more people watch live streaming online than the TV highlights packages anyway, as they can be watched and re-watched at the viewers convenience.