[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[Articus]

F1 drivers are not the only guys who are capable of going ten tenths. What would you say now when half of the field is now "pay driver" And half of them have no on track manners(Perez, Maldonado, etc.)

This is just like getting into University. They're more qualified applicants than spots for admission. Take that as you will. This is why we see guys like Benoit Treluyer and Andre Lotterer seemingly come out of nowhere.

[Dead-Eye]

McNish is an ex-F1-driver as well, and Lotterer has had a sizable single seater career in Japan plus spending some time as an F1 test driver back when those did actually get to drive.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Rennen

What you have to take onboard here is LMP1 cars are puka wind tunnel designed 'high-downforce' cars more akin to F1 than anything else out there, as such LMP1 teams tend to go for ex F1 drivers who are used to extracting flat-out (10 Tenths) lappery, for that reason...and there are plenty of those guys around. (no disrespect meant for your choice)

Seriously? I understand you've got a certain bias here and I respect that, but the facts simply don't back this up. A glance through the LM winners since 2000 shows the only winning lineup to truly espouse the principle of favouring ex-F1 drivers is Peugeot's winning lineup in '09 with Wurz, Gene and Brabham. They openly talked about how they won by being the relative tortoise to the other Peugeot hares, which kind of puts a lie to the must be able to go flat out all the time business. Otherwise, the winners with F1 race time (I believe) are Pirro, Lehto and McNish. The former really isn't known as an F1 pilot, the latter worked his way into F1 in late life through his top-level prototype drives, which in the current climate is most impressive indeed.

Audi has won the last 4 years running with Timo Bernhard, Romain Dumas, Mike Rockenfeller, Marcel Fassler, Andre Lotterer, Benoit Treluyer, Tom Kristensen, Allan McNish and Loic Duval. Every one of them clearly can run flat-out in a high downforce, high horsepower car. How many of them have raced in F1, exactly?

[Mr Pink]

I would like to see what Maxime Martin could do in an LMP1 car, that guy has some serious potential.

[EricS]

.

Graham Goodwin ‏@dsceditor 3h
So twitter nation - any reason you can think why Adrian Sutil and his manager were guests of Porsche at Goodwood FOS?

[cmk]

They're just dying to have a Medion livery for next year?

[deggis]

http://pic.twitter.com/cqqRdFlIyt

[Articus]

Originally Posted by cmk

Seriously? I understand you've got a certain bias here and I respect that, but the facts simply don't back this up. A glance through the LM winners since 2000 shows the only winning lineup to truly espouse the principle of favouring ex-F1 drivers is Peugeot's winning lineup in '09 with Wurz, Gene and Brabham. They openly talked about how they won by being the relative tortoise to the other Peugeot hares, which kind of puts a lie to the must be able to go flat out all the time business. Otherwise, the winners with F1 race time (I believe) are Pirro, Lehto and McNish. The former really isn't known as an F1 pilot, the latter worked his way into F1 in late life through his top-level prototype drives, which in the current climate is most impressive indeed.

Audi has won the last 4 years running with Timo Bernhard, Romain Dumas, Mike Rockenfeller, Marcel Fassler, Andre Lotterer, Benoit Treluyer, Tom Kristensen, Allan McNish and Loic Duval. Every one of them clearly can run flat-out in a high downforce, high horsepower car. How many of them have raced in F1, exactly?

Exactly....

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by cmk

Seriously? I understand you've got a certain bias here and I respect that, but the facts simply don't back this up. A glance through the LM winners since 2000 shows the only winning lineup to truly espouse the principle of favouring ex-F1 drivers is Peugeot's winning lineup in '09 with Wurz, Gene and Brabham. They openly talked about how they won by being the relative tortoise to the other Peugeot hares, which kind of puts a lie to the must be able to go flat out all the time business. Otherwise, the winners with F1 race time (I believe) are Pirro, Lehto and McNish. The former really isn't known as an F1 pilot, the latter worked his way into F1 in late life through his top-level prototype drives, which in the current climate is most impressive indeed.

Audi has won the last 4 years running with Timo Bernhard, Romain Dumas, Mike Rockenfeller, Marcel Fassler, Andre Lotterer, Benoit Treluyer, Tom Kristensen, Allan McNish and Loic Duval. Every one of them clearly can run flat-out in a high downforce, high horsepower car. How many of them have raced in F1, exactly?

Right point.
To be an F1 driver means you may be capable to win with a single seater formula car, but it doesn't give you any chance to be a star in sportscars, too.
You can be fast in P1, but it doesn't mean you can win, nor to be on the same plain of the best in class.
I hope to see more endurance specialist drivers than former-F1 drivers, in Porsche team.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Dario911

Right point.
To be an F1 driver means you may be capable to win with a single seater formula car, but it doesn't give you any chance to be a star in sportscars, too.
You can be fast in P1, but it doesn't mean you can win, nor to be on the same plain of the best in class.
I hope to see more endurance specialist drivers than former-F1 drivers, in Porsche team.

Having said all that there is no reason why an F1 driver cant make the adaption to be a top line sportscar driver. Davidson and Heidfeld both seem to have what it takes - to name but two.

[TF110]

I think Rennen's statement is truth. He didn't say sportscar drivers are overlooked, but that F1 drivers are in the 'trend' and rightfully so. Those F1 drivers are suited for lmp's because lmp is now basically a sprint type race. If you make it to F1 you have serious speed or huge backing. Heidfeld, Davidson, McNish, Nakajima, Wurz, Sarrazin, Webber etc. The list goes on.

[Starfish Primer]

Originally Posted by cmk

Seriously? I understand you've got a certain bias here and I respect that, but the facts simply don't back this up. A glance through the LM winners since 2000 shows the only winning lineup to truly espouse the principle of favouring ex-F1 drivers is Peugeot's winning lineup in '09 with Wurz, Gene and Brabham. They openly talked about how they won by being the relative tortoise to the other Peugeot hares, which kind of puts a lie to the must be able to go flat out all the time business. Otherwise, the winners with F1 race time (I believe) are Pirro, Lehto and McNish. The former really isn't known as an F1 pilot, the latter worked his way into F1 in late life through his top-level prototype drives, which in the current climate is most impressive indeed.

Audi has won the last 4 years running with Timo Bernhard, Romain Dumas, Mike Rockenfeller, Marcel Fassler, Andre Lotterer, Benoit Treluyer, Tom Kristensen, Allan McNish and Loic Duval. Every one of them clearly can run flat-out in a high downforce, high horsepower car. How many of them have raced in F1, exactly?

Bernhard and Rockenfeller dropped early from the single seaters but all the other drivers have a good background in single seaters (F3, F3000, Nippon...) before moving to LMP. I wouldn´t do a wall between sportscar drivers and F1 drivers because the ladder to F1 is financially complicated and many talented drivers move to other categories (DTM, GT, LMP...) because they cannot move to F1.

Take as an example the DTM Mercedes young guns (Juncadella, Wickens, Merhi or Vietoris) they are in DTM because they cannot afford F1, not because F1 doesn´t suit their driving styles.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Dyson suggested they are going to WEC.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...lans-for-2014/

My expectations are that Pickett may follow suit. L5 is the interesting one and if they go to WEC then the P2's may be told to pound sand.

I bolded the NASCAR bits, because I really doubt that will happen.



Well the 2015 is an assumption, not part of the original rumour. As to how solid it is.... how can you judge?

They did, and I think that's a fair assessment. Just a matter of the cost to spend. Having said that, I do agree that if L5/Dyson/MM bail for the WEC I completely agree the P2 gets told to shove off...

As far as the Penske deal, it's an assumption, yes, but..it's logical. It's also been talked about so much that I'm begging to wonder how much truth their is.

[Porsche917K]

At this point can we assume Pat Long is not in the running? I just watched Long Beach from 2008 which was probably Pat's best drive in an RS Spyder, and it made me think about him in a prototype again. Not to mention he is my favorite factory driver.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Porsche917K

At this point can we assume Pat Long is not in the running? I just watched Long Beach from 2008 which was probably Pat's best drive in an RS Spyder, and it made me think about him in a prototype again. Not to mention he is my favorite factory driver.

He was the odd man out in Porsche's factory effort this year. The chances of him getting a P1 ride next year is basically zero.

[Articus]

Pat is always quick in a GT car but he didn't gel with that RS Spyder...I don't see him as a likely candidate either. Im guessing outside of the already confirmed adding Lucas Luhr. Luhr is a known quantity and he won the P2 title for Porsche back in 06.

[schmidder]

Originally Posted by Porsche917K

At this point can we assume Pat Long is not in the running? I just watched Long Beach from 2008 which was probably Pat's best drive in an RS Spyder, and it made me think about him in a prototype again. Not to mention he is my favorite factory driver.

Can't find a lot of reason for sending the one American factory driver to Europe to drive lmp1, when they would have to fill his shoes here. He's one of my favorite drivers too. If be some fortunate miracle we get a lmp1 effort going in a series in the us, I would hope he gets a shot at it...

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by Articus

Pat is always quick in a GT car but he didn't gel with that RS Spyder...I don't see him as a likely candidate either. Im guessing outside of the already confirmed adding Lucas Luhr. Luhr is a known quantity and he won the P2 title for Porsche back in 06.

That would make sense although I'm personally hoping for someone new to P1, there are quite a few drivers I would like to see how they would do in the top class.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by TF110

I think Rennen's statement is truth. He didn't say sportscar drivers are overlooked, but that F1 drivers are in the 'trend' and rightfully so. Those F1 drivers are suited for lmp's because lmp is now basically a sprint type race. If you make it to F1 you have serious speed or huge backing. Heidfeld, Davidson, McNish, Nakajima, Wurz, Sarrazin, Webber etc. The list goes on.

We've had the F1 or not F1 debate before and there is no right answer. A good driver is a good driver and will be able to turn his hand to most forms of racing successfully. But I can't buy an equation which says that an F1 driver = a good LMP driver, just because he's been an F1 driver....

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by TF110

I think Rennen's statement is truth. He didn't say sportscar drivers are overlooked, but that F1 drivers are in the 'trend' and rightfully so. Those F1 drivers are suited for lmp's because lmp is now basically a sprint type race. If you make it to F1 you have serious speed or huge backing. Heidfeld, Davidson, McNish, Nakajima, Wurz, Sarrazin, Webber etc. The list goes on.

We've had the F1 or not F1 debate before and there is no right answer. A good driver is a good driver and will be able to turn his hand to most forms of racing successfully. But I can't buy an equation which says that an F1 driver = a good LMP driver, just because he's been an F1 driver.... We all know there are drivers in F1 (and always have been), who aren't there on merit.....

Still - back to the topic......

[Simmi]

With a number of P2 teams happy to rent out seats at WEC/ELMS rounds it would be cool to see Porsche try out some young guns in protos.

Not sure they will be in a position to do driver testing 'shoot-outs' to fill seats. I might be wrong though.

[Spyderman]

Mike Fuller reporting that Penske has in fact signed deal to run P1 Porsche - " Penske HAS signed deal to run Porsche LMP1; BUT, crew is openly being solicited for operations...in Germany. Seems then WEC 4 Penske/Porsche" - Mike Fuller

[Pandamasque]

As in Penske/Porsche works team or Penske/Porsche in addtition to Porsche AG works team?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

As in Penske/Porsche works team or Penske/Porsche in addtition to Porsche AG works team?

If the crew is solicited in Germany, sounds to me very much like a Penske/Porsche works team.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Mike Fuller reporting that Penske has in fact signed deal to run P1 Porsche - " Penske HAS signed deal to run Porsche LMP1; BUT, crew is openly being solicited for operations...in Germany. Seems then WEC 4 Penske/Porsche" - Mike Fuller

I went to mulsannescorner and found nothing newer than June. Can you provide a link please?