Ff1600

[JNWRF01]

FF1600 front runners in nationals - they would be nowhere.

If you look at our champs (SFFC Zetec) Chris Pennington won the southern kents a few years back and runs at the front of our series. Our first race at Donnington when the nationals used it as a warm, a young guy driving for JLR walked it - Chris qualified 8th (I was 9th) with the best of the "regulars" being 7th!! So its fair to say we would all be cr@p unless we entered in the spirit of testing every week and spending £100k a year !!

Jeremy Walker

[formulafordster]

Its a shame, because "back in the day" locals used to give national guys a hard time around "their track". Maybe in a few years when regional Zetec has found its feets we will see a few wildcards giving the nationals some presure?

[ukracing]

"Back in the old days" it was much more popular and cheaper for Joe Blow to compete, even in regional championships. You had a lot more competitors and therefore more chance of some talented drivers coming through.( I think Joe Blow these days is relegated to his play station) You also see in the main Championships young drivers who have been Karting (semi pro.) since year dot which has increased the divide between them and the true enthusiust.

[JNWRF01]

..the zetecs are a "wierd" car in terms of getting them to work. I am not sure whether you can get them to go quickly without the huge amount of testing the national boys do. The kents are miles more driveable and easier to get into and go quickly...

eg - Luke Hines raced in our series last year and would do mid 48s at Brands and mid 11s at Snett in our races (on the whole the best of the rest were 1 sec or so slower). He jumped into the JLR car for the Snetterton TOCA meeting and was dong mid-high 9s and was up the front (I think England won both races though).

I know for example to do a 1.16 at Snett in a kent is about the same as a 1.12 in zetec, but a 1.12 is THREE seconds off the national pace!!

I personally think that kents will always be the clubmans series - and the various zetec clubman series will be just that. Not a progression or traiing ground for the future stars. Shame, having race in the COB in the late 80s, it wasn;t that far behind the national level and you had clubman at the front of that series (mssrs Bull, Hall, Heyden etc etc etc)

[JR Ewing]

What an interesting thread I have started here.

I o wonder if there will be a non-regional period class again for these cars. I hope so but if broken dwon by years, RF00s and the like may not be allowed??

[goughy]

Without wanting to blow my own trumpet, A good ff1600 driver can go well in Zetecs.

I tested for Kevin Mills racing in December in his 2001 Zetec car at Donington Park. After a wet morning I set a 1.13.7 lap time on a track damp in places and on old tyres. I believe this was under a second off pole for the juniors and would of been good enough for 2nd/3rd for the regional zetec championship.

I am also pretty sure John Hutchinson went pretty well when he did a Zetec round at combe a few years ago.

Stuart Gough

[darcym]

would love to have seen a race report of Johnny Hutch in a zetec.

[qwertyuiop]

Hi. Im thinking of buying a FF1600. Opinion seems varied on which would make the best choice. Does anybody have views or info on whether a Vector would be a wise purchase?

[goughy]

Don’t know much about the Vector chassis. I think you always have to look at what’s doing well at your local circuit, knowledge available to you about setup and also consider the ease of getting spares. Don't think there are many running Vectors so you may have to carry spares around with you, as opposed to running in a Swift, Reynard or Van Diemen where there tends to be a supply of spares at every race.

[JR Ewing]

Vectors are good, very well built cars. They were effectively pretty much the same car from 1993 through to 2000. Spares are obtainable but as Goughy says you will have to cart them round. If you get a good price on the car, I'd say it's worth it - good roller 3,750??

[JR Ewing]

Originally posted by goughy
Without wanting to blow my own trumpet, A good ff1600 driver can go well in Zetecs.

I tested for Kevin Mills racing in December in his 2001 Zetec car at Donington Park. After a wet morning I set a 1.13.7 lap time on a track damp in places and on old tyres. I believe this was under a second off pole for the juniors and would of been good enough for 2nd/3rd for the regional zetec championship.

I am also pretty sure John Hutchinson went pretty well when he did a Zetec round at combe a few years ago.

Stuart Gough

I'm sure you could go well in Zetecs Goughy but I wouldn't take test pace as a forgone conclsuion when the team wants you to pay to race with them...

Also, John Hutchinson went well at a track where Zetecs had - at that time - never previously raced and he was something of a specialist at that track (Combe), so while he did well it should be taken in isolation...

[Barny]

To go back to JR's original question, I would like to add my own experiance, having enjoyed competing in Pre'90 then Superclassic for several years, several factors made me, question the merits of FF1600, these were (in no particular order) rising entry costs, annual engine rebuilds becoming ever more expensive as poor quality components became the norm, no slur on the engine builder but a crank every year and a difficulty obtaining blocks. And the championship being used as one of races at most circuits by circuit specilists pot hunting rather than competing in the entire championship. Since I opted out the championship died and now there is no national FF1600 championship, perhaps the BARC could be persuaded to add a championship for pre Zetec chassis to run along side thier Classis FF championship, and could I suggest that a control steel crank be permitted to reduce engine rebuild costs?

[JR Ewing]

Sounds good Barny - have you suggested it to the BARC. I have suggested something similar and they are responsive. Enough people could make them do it. They don't want to tread on BRSCC toers but THEY don't offer a nationla FF1600 series so it wouldn't compete directly. A differnet club will also dter the pothunters etc.

[goughy]

It’s difficult to know if that’s what people really want. For sure I would have done it this year but I really think FF1600 is now a club formula with club drivers (not to say there is anything wrong with that) with the exception of maybe 10 drivers or so that would like to race in a national championship.

If you look at the North-West Championship I race in while we get good numbers at Oulton, we struggle a bit for numbers at Anglesey as people cannot afford it in terms of time away (they are 3 day events with testing) or money. The championship coordinator has been keen on us racing at Donington too, but the response from drivers as not been great, so we do not race there. The difficulty as always is money, money, money.

[Barny]

I think you must have a point goughy, I have always liked the variety of racing on different circuits, it is all part of the fun, but looking at the grids at Combe & Oulton they are doing something right, travel costs are probably the next largest expense after entries and engine re-builds.

[Swift92]

I think there is great potential for a National type event, but it will only work if the entry fee is lowered. this is the only reason grids are so small at places like brands. Combe grids are always large and they pay less for entry. I know this issue is on another thread but to me anyway thats what I think stops alot of people from last year racing.

[Barny]

The entry fee's for the URS FF2000 championship run by the BARC are £135, for that you normaly have a 20 minute practice, 12 to 18 lap races and the use of garages if available, I realise it is supported by URS, but it makes the BRSCC championships look very poor value.

[blue nose]

Originally posted by JR Ewing
Forgot to add that the RF00 weighs a LOT more than say an RF90-92 which also makes acceleration poor.
You must remember that the guys running the converted cars are very experienced and qucik and also have top engines/new tyres. They'd all be quick in more 'traditional' cars.

They only weigh 6 kilos more than a 90-92 John the problem with them is you need to put in a 10-31 diff instead of the 13-36 I have strugled to get mine of the line all year so over the winter it will be changed.But saying that I have enjoyed driving the car this year as it is so stable and very easy to drive,this year they have started to be quicker than say the traditional cars we keep finding little mods to improve them.The down side is they are just so expensive to repair.

[blue nose]

Originally posted by JR Ewing
Forgot to add that the RF00 weighs a LOT more than say an RF90-92 which also makes acceleration poor.
You must remember that the guys running the converted cars are very experienced and qucik and also have top engines/new tyres. They'd all be quick in more 'traditional' cars.

They only weigh 6 kilos more than a 90-92 John the problem with them is you need to put in a 10-31 diff instead of the 13-36 I have strugled to get mine of the line all year so over the winter it will be changed.But saying that I have enjoyed driving the car this year as it is so stable and very easy to drive,this year they have started to be quicker than say the traditional cars we keep finding little mods to improve them.The down side is they are just so expensive to repair.

[dhart]

you can say that again!!

[blue nose]

I did twice Dave.

[diz]

Interesting that this thread has been resurrected and JR Ewing was trying to stay anonymous in the earlier replies. This was all five months before I discovered the time consuming pleasures of ten tenths, but at least his identity is now common knowledge.

[darcym]

I don't know who he is ?

[kartingdad]

Neither do I.

[Ian Sowman]