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Old 18 May 2004, 22:28 (Ref:1544682)   #26
Andrew Fellowes
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Come on young Bryan, 25 pages, 368 replies that only leaves 55 more pages and another 2,819 replies and you will catch up with the Amon thread on TNF.

No ambition, you Sydneysiders have it too easy.
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Old 20 May 2004, 11:29 (Ref:1544683)   #27
Bryan Miller
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As Andrew seems to think we are going to eclipse the Amon thread on TNF we had better get on with it.

Some interesting notes from Autosport .

7-6-68, p.34 states Stiller has a BT23C F3.
26-7--68 p34 states Stiller's BT23 has been sold. ??????
Are we talking 2 x cars already or misprint.???

15-11-68 p4 states Lythgoe's BT23C to George Pitt , if this is BT23C-2 by 13-6-69 it has moved to Don Godden as Chris advises.

Also a very interesting piece in the Brabham article Autosport 15-11-1968 advises that the Lythgoe BT23C which Peter Gethin raced in F2 this season is a re-converted FB chassis as per BT23G and H models.

The three BT23B cars went to Mike Hawley and this car only had integral water rails as it was built as a short distance hillclimb car , whereas the other two cars for John Bridges and Charles Vogele had external water rails.

In view of David McKinney advising earlier re. the ex Graham Hill F2-8-65 being converted at the factory for Mildren's 2.5 Climax and being allocated BT23B-1 ? do we have a handle on any BT23B numbers.?

Sorry but my Autosports in 1967 number 1 x .
1968 about 20 issues ,
so I get to use a lot of question marks.

27-6-69, Etienne Vigouroux as an F3 with an F2 BT23 chassis, and 4-7-69 , p10 this car is called out as a Jolly Club/Oliver Speight Racing car.

Francisci's car is described as an F2 chassis supplied by Frank Williams , BUT are we talking just a BT23 chassis as opposed to a complete entity , may have been a spare chassis lying around at Frank Williams and was turned into an F3 with donor F3 components , for sure if you were going to be serious , no way could you run an FT200 , too heavy , and 5 speed was not allowed in F3.Yes I fully realise you can convert an FT to 4 speed , but the weight penalty would kill you.

BT23C for sale by Creasy Hotels Racing 13-11-1969 p.50 , described as lap record holder Silverstone 69 cars Brabham BT23C $1000.00 [ not my typo this time ]

Report at Pukekoe that after test run by Roly Levis his BT23C handed over to Baron Robertson 18-12-1969 p.13.

BT23B 1-8-1969 Jack Smith.
BT23B ex Mike Hawley car to Gray and Angus Mickel for Hillclimbing.

Off into 1970 Autosports next.

Bryan.
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Old 20 May 2004, 11:33 (Ref:1544684)   #28
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The Roly Levis test run also stated that the test was after the rebuild.
Bryan.
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Old 28 May 2004, 13:55 (Ref:1544685)   #29
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Brian

The Vigooreux F3 car is described in 1969 as ex Galli

This had always led me to think it was chassis 8, ex Nanni Galli 1967

But, it could easily have been the ex Redman chassis 9 which goes F3 with Stiller and then FRANCO Galli in March 1968.

Dave Webster used a BT23 FB at the SCCA Finals in Nov. 68 This was at Riverside so I guess he could be the 'wealthy Californian'. Whatever it is, the Webster car is pretty much the only candidate for the BT23 used in FB by Ted Thomas in 1970. [Unless that's a misprinted 21!]

The Jack Smith BT23B owned by Goerge Pitt. Chassis 3. Used by Lanfranchi at Race of Champions 1969. Smith killed in it 1969.

Gubelmann's late 68 BT23 is a '23F' and in '69 he has one of two 23Gs. Was one of these the 23F rebuilt?

Chris
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Old 31 May 2004, 09:18 (Ref:1544686)   #30
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Chris,

I would be inclined to believe the Webster car was either a BT23G or F , as they were built to suit the U.S.A. market.

This then doesn't give you a problem with the 2 candidates which were other places.

I had George Pitt with a BT23B , but was not aware that Jack Smith had driven the car, very sad.

BT23B-2 is for sale at the moment and advising it is the ex. Mike Hawley car.

It makes sense that the ex. Vigoroux car went to Franco Galli , both in F3 guise, but as I have said elsewhere common sense doesn't work sometimes in old racing cars.

Does anybody have a BT23B-4 listing out there.???

Bryan.
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Old 31 May 2004, 10:55 (Ref:1544687)   #31
David McKinney
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Was there a BT23B-4?
I make it four BT23Bs, but am by no means certain of their numbers:
i) The Mildren/Gardner car - I reckon BT23B-1
ii) The Pitt/Smith car - I reckon BT23B-2, other say 1
iii) The Vögele hillclimb car - I have no number for this car, others say 2
iv) The Hawley hillclimb car - I say BT23B-3, the owner apparently says 2. Or has he got one of the other claimants, and not the Hawley car at all?
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Old 31 May 2004, 15:35 (Ref:1544688)   #32
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The Philip Walker BT23B currently for sale with Legends Racing and painted in Charles Vögele colours is BT23B2.
What is sure is that the car had spent many years in the ownership of Jean-Louis Gillet who had bought the car from Willy Widar who had himself found the car in Switzerland.
Gillet sold the car to John Harper who sold it to Walker.

Hereafter is the chassis plate of the car while owned by Gillet:
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Old 31 May 2004, 15:39 (Ref:1544689)   #33
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Same car while owned by Gillet:
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Old 31 May 2004, 15:47 (Ref:1544690)   #34
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Another one
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Old 31 May 2004, 15:55 (Ref:1544691)   #35
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Here's the missing picture
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Old 31 May 2004, 15:57 (Ref:1544692)   #36
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One more.
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Old 31 May 2004, 16:00 (Ref:1544693)   #37
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After restoration.
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Old 31 May 2004, 16:04 (Ref:1544694)   #38
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BT23B Mike Hawley Prescott July 1967 2.0 litre FPF
Copyright Ted Walker.
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Old 31 May 2004, 16:15 (Ref:1544695)   #39
David McKinney
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Quote:
Originally posted by phdm
Hereafter is the chassis plate of the car while owned by Gillet:
Looks fairly conclusive!
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Old 31 May 2004, 16:40 (Ref:1544696)   #40
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Ted and I thought we'd sorted out the BT23Bs 20 years ago but maybe we hadn't. I've just gone back to my early-1980s card index and assembled this:

Brabham BT23B/1

Mike Hawley; completed June 1967 (See Autosport 16 Jun 1967 p973). Bought by Bob Rose (AS 19 Jul 1968 p37). Then the Mickels (AS 4 Apr 1969 p37). Advertised AS 22 Oct 1970 p59 and that's all I have.

Brabham BT23B/3

Built Sept 1967 "believed last one of the specially built Tasman F1 machines. 2 short successful races only" - George Pitt AS 8 Dec 1967 p1011. The races would be the Gold Cup and an Oulton libre (AS 6 Oct 1967 p587). Then Racing Preparations for Tony Lanfranchi RoC 1968. Later JD Lewis in ex-RP BT23B AS 13 Sep 1968 p5. Then Jack Smith for Roy Pike (AS 8 Aug 1969, 29 Aug 1969 - one of which mentions it's ex-Pitt, ex-RP). Then Autosport review of club racing (12 Feb 1970 p23) says Smith sold his BT23B to his homeland for the Canadian GP. Raced by Cordts from time-to-time in Canadian FA? That's all I have on this one.

My notes don't say why I'm so sure about the chassis numbers, but it does leave the Vögele car as BT23B/2.

Allen
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Old 31 May 2004, 18:17 (Ref:1544697)   #41
David McKinney
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Didn't Smith's car return to the UK, where it killed him in 1972 (and was supposedly written off)?
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Old 31 May 2004, 23:15 (Ref:1544698)   #42
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Can we do anything with the Autosport report I listed earlier , 15-11-1968 , which states Frank Lythgoe's BT23C sold to G. Pitt. page 4 .

Chris advised this car to Don Godden , thence for sale Low Cost Racing, with no ref. to Pitt.

Lythgoes car was BT23C-2.

As usual the plot thickens , rather than becoming clearer,

Allen , now you mention it , I also recall that ref. to Canadian John Cordts.

Bryan.
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Old 22 Aug 2004, 13:06 (Ref:1544710)   #43
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Just surfing, I remember a BT35 in West Aus raced by Dominic Mannello & true to his heritage it ran a Fiat twin cam. This was mid 70s.
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Old 23 Aug 2004, 10:23 (Ref:1544711)   #44
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Cavvy,

The Dominic Mannello car is a BT35/36 bodied rebuild of the ex Fred Wheelhouse BT23 type Jane /Repco car from Victoria , car is now owned ,still in Western Australia by Neil McCrudden.

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Old 23 Aug 2004, 13:16 (Ref:1544712)   #45
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Bryan

Is this the car that ran as the Jane-Repco in 2.5-litre priod - about 1968?

Allen
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Old 24 Aug 2004, 07:12 (Ref:1544713)   #46
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re the Mannello BT35
Please explain the BT23 type Jane Repco - did the Jane organisation build it?
Out of interest how many cars does Neil McCrudden have?
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Old 24 Aug 2004, 08:13 (Ref:1544714)   #47
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Allen, Yes , to the best of my knowledge , built up by Jane team , chassis by Bob Brittan and used some components from the ex Sir Jack Tasman car BT23E-1 , which had been purchased after the Tasman , very triangular fuel tanks, then ended up in Western Australia , and after some time re-bodied to make more modern appearance with BT35/6 panels.

Neil McCrudden has a few cars that I am aware of.

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Old 4 Sep 2004, 00:08 (Ref:1544715)   #48
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Bryan,
I've been trying to follow the Mannello BT35 - Jane car. From what I can glean the Jane car followed the John Harvey crash at Bathurst in 1968, is this right. Was it built in the John Sawyer era? What happened to the ex Sir Jack chassis. Do you regard the Mannello car as a Brabham?

Regards
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Old 4 Sep 2004, 02:28 (Ref:1544716)   #49
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Cavvy.

The Manello car is definately NOT a Brabham.
The ex Sir Jack Brabham car was all pieced back together with a Repco 2.5 litre and sold circa late 198o's to the U.S.A. as far as I know to Mr. Art Valdez, via a Melbourne person , I did not see the car , and have no intimitate knowledge of the rebuild.

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Old 7 Nov 2004, 20:22 (Ref:1546783)   #50
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I've been working through this thread identifying BT23 Sprint Brabhams
The one I can't identify is:

Brabham-Ford BT23C (1.6) - Maurice Ogier once in 1972

The BT23C should fit into our histories but I haven't been able to connect it.

Allen

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