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Old 31 Jul 2017, 10:04 (Ref:3756304)   #61
Compromised
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Compromised should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Interesting to see Hamilton absolutely fly once released. It seems the cars ability to follow and pass could be tweaked.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 10:42 (Ref:3756388)   #62
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Originally Posted by bobec View Post
You guys are kidding, right? He's obviously furious. Funny how Lauda is cold faced towards Toto while he's "celebrating".
I've never seen someone who is furious before clap their hands and release an exclamation of 'yes'.

Things get broken when Toto is furious.

Lauda is straight faced because all he saw was a straightforward swap of positions, something he wouldn't get emotional about.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 14:31 (Ref:3756430)   #63
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Toto looks like a man who just realized his summer holiday won't be ruined with driver debriefs, online twitter wars, board meetings about PR ramifications, and weeks of inane media questions about rules of engagement.

Enjoy the break....been an excellent first half of the season!
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 15:12 (Ref:3756440)   #64
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Originally Posted by bobec View Post
Then you might as well instruct Bottas to let Lewis through every time. Or even sandbag during qualifying. Why not? Let's forget about the racing, leave it aside, and concentrate on winning the title. Maybe some would love that, but I think real fans would start taking F1 less seriously.

Lewis initially had 5 laps to try and move up, after which he was to give back the position, which belonged to Bottas. That was the agreement. He kept the position much longer, almost until the end, and gave it back right at the last moment.

Giving back the position was the right decision, and I was very glad to see some fair play, in contrast to what I've previously seen at Mercedes, and at Ferrari, especially during the Schumacher years.

At the same time, I think the team may have instructed Lewis not to give back the position. First, he stayed ahead almost until the end, and not for 5 laps. And second, there is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AurfDcOHQQA .
I agree it's great to see some fair play in F1 and it's pleasant contrast to what's gone on before. However, my comment is purely an observation based on the numerous times I've seen in sport, where someone or a team, misses out on a couple of points because of a decision, right or wrong and not having those points has made the difference to winning or losing.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 15:31 (Ref:3756443)   #65
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for sure it can come back into play...LH has lost a title and won a title by a single point before. not to mention any number of other seasons where it has come down to a small handful of points.

makes it all the more exciting though!
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 16:13 (Ref:3756448)   #66
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Originally Posted by bobec View Post
And second, there is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AurfDcOHQQA

I always knew there was something unpleasant about that Toto. Note how Lauda doesn't react at all, while Anthony Hamilton looks a little conflicted, but shows some firm approval. It really looks like the team disregarded the deal between Bottas and Lewis, but Lewis, for whatever reason, made his own decision.
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You guys are kidding, right? He's obviously furious. Funny how Lauda is cold faced towards Toto while he's "celebrating".
Sorry, I just don't see it. Maybe you are projecting what is a particularly negative perspective onto those in the video? Seeing what you want to see? I will say if anything is odd about that is the lack of any reaction from Lauda, but then again, I don't pay much attention to him, so for all I know it might not be unusual for him. I believe I have seen similar reactions from Toto before when something goes right for the team?

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Toto was celebrating Lewis not losing a spot trying to hand the position back!
That makes as much if not more sense than anything put forth so far. Given the gap between the two and with Verstappen so close behind Bottas it was going to require some work to make it happen in the waning laps. Also, there should have been no instant "Anger" to be expressed, because Hamilton had clearly been slowing (and some cars unlapping themselves) to perform the position swap. If there was to be anger, it would have been when they saw that starting and not when it finished?

I am not a Hamilton fan. I will go as far as to say I am not keen on him winning the championship this year. But, I also have no problem saying he did the right thing here and I hope he doesn't loose by three points so that this true gesture of "sportsmanship" and "keeping his word" doesn't become clouded in the future. Why are we all so eager to convert something good in F1 into something bad.

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Old 31 Jul 2017, 16:35 (Ref:3756452)   #67
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Toto looked intense and aggressive, but also positive. I don't see the issue.

I do find Lewis odd. He gave the position back because he couldn't make the pass? But if he made the pass would he have been ok with team orders? He says he wants to win "the right way", which must mean if he'd challenged a Ferrari then he'd have been winning the wrong way?

I don't know. I have no problem with him giving the spot back (or being given it in the first place), but the whole "I want to win the right way" sounds like ego nonsense when you look at it beyond face value. Almost like those mind games that Fernando used to play before he realised he was terrible at mind games.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 17:16 (Ref:3756463)   #68
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
I do find Lewis odd. He gave the position back because he couldn't make the pass? But if he made the pass would he have been ok with team orders? He says he wants to win "the right way", which must mean if he'd challenged a Ferrari then he'd have been winning the wrong way?
im not sure i follow that...if LH had gotten past a Ferrari then surely that is the 'right way' as this was the reason his team mate let him by.

the 'wrong way' would be not getting by the Ferrari and then not giving the place back to his team mate after he failed in the attempt and thus put those 3 points into his own pocket? after all Bottas is fighting for a title as well...which LH seems to respect.

or perhaps i just read your post incorrectly.

granted one can make an argument that LH would have not done the same if the roles were reversed but thats a different discussion to this one imo.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 19:04 (Ref:3756504)   #69
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Why are we all so eager to convert something good in F1 into something bad.
Absolutely. Why, that's never ever happened before in these post-race discussions has it........!

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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
Toto looked intense and aggressive, but also positive. I don't see the issue.

I do find Lewis odd. He gave the position back because he couldn't make the pass? But if he made the pass would he have been ok with team orders? He says he wants to win "the right way", which must mean if he'd challenged a Ferrari then he'd have been winning the wrong way?

I don't know. I have no problem with him giving the spot back (or being given it in the first place), but the whole "I want to win the right way" sounds like ego nonsense when you look at it beyond face value. Almost like those mind games that Fernando used to play before he realised he was terrible at mind games.
Just a tad too much analysis, perhaps....?
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 19:13 (Ref:3756510)   #70
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Maybe, but nobody makes as many odd statements to the press as Lewis does. I find that interesting. Its the same phase Fernando went through when he had hard times at Ferrari against Red Bull. Playing weird kind games and what not. It's interesting. Certainly more interesting than "suck my balls" anyway.

I just found it odd to make reference to the whole team mate thing. They've all benefited and lost out due to that over the years so it was a strange statement.
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Old 1 Aug 2017, 00:15 (Ref:3756565)   #71
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Taxi645 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If you look at T1 at about 14-15s into the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU72heP0uH0

I wonder if that was payback from Kimi for last years race and all the other **** that went down last season? I mean what other reason would there be to brake like that mid corner? Certainly not to avoid Seb?
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Old 1 Aug 2017, 01:22 (Ref:3756569)   #72
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If you look at T1 at about 14-15s into the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU72heP0uH0

I wonder if that was payback from Kimi for last years race and all the other **** that went down last season? I mean what other reason would there be to brake like that mid corner? Certainly not to avoid Seb?
I think it was more so that Kimi could get to the inside line and block the Mercedes
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Old 1 Aug 2017, 07:27 (Ref:3756605)   #73
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I think it was more so that Kimi could get to the inside line and block the Mercedes
Yeah you're probably right.

I suppose that he realized that holding the outside was going to loose momentum at the exit of turn 1 by either being pushed off the track or having to back off the throttle. Better to brake earlier in the corner and get a good exit than trying to maintain an unsavable position and run the chance to get caught by the Red Bull and/or the Mercedes up to turn 2.

By doing so he gave them a good scare and both Ferraris were able to hold their position.
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Old 1 Aug 2017, 07:48 (Ref:3756611)   #74
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Originally Posted by Taxi645 View Post
If you look at T1 at about 14-15s into the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU72heP0uH0

I wonder if that was payback from Kimi for last years race and all the other **** that went down last season? I mean what other reason would there be to brake like that mid corner? Certainly not to avoid Seb?
His front wing was very close to Seb's back wheel when he got on the clamps, and I think that Articus is also right that he was trying to cover off the inside line.

Interesting to look at Max's little happening with Ricciardo at 1:06 in the above Youtube clip, he would have run into the back of Lewis if he hadn't locked up, and Ricciardo could possibly have run right round the outside of Lewis if he hadn't been torpedoed!
Lewis was very slow into that corner!

Last edited by wnut; 1 Aug 2017 at 07:59.
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Old 1 Aug 2017, 08:45 (Ref:3756626)   #75
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F1Guy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Kimi break tested Max, hoping it would cause a concertina effect when Max braked - and take out the two Merc's behind. Typical Ferrari tactics. Probably discussed and planned during the pre race debrief.



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