[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion

[Hiro]

Audi was already quicker than Toyota last year silverstone, which Kinoshita admitted.
At Spa, we will see how Toyota's low d/f package perform

[cokata]

Originally Posted by bentley speed 8

Weren't the Audis pretty much off-pace the whole of last year? Yet they still managed to win two races last year, including Le Mans.

I don't think it's time to talk so negatively about Toyota after just one race, where they still managed to get both cars to the finish without problems, unlike both Audi and Porsche.

I would be more worried about Nissan....

They won 2 races in which Toyota had problems. In Le Mans they were close to the speed of the Toyota, but still slightly slower. And in COTA buemi had the most dominant stint of the whole season, but then the weather changed the whole race.

[flyingshoppingcart]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Again, which seasons are you talking about?

They raced a grand total of three (two and a half to be precise), did extremely well for a newcomer in 2012, 2013 was a bit of a disappointment and they completely dominated 2014 and won everything but Le Mans (where they had the fastest cars as well).

All the numerous seasons Toyota participated in the WEC and Le Mans in previous years, before 2012 and their current entry in WEC over the last few years.

Here's a bit of background: http://www.toyota-global.com/company...rts/index.html

Toyota first participated in Le Mans in 1985, and since then has participated in both the WEC (previously SWC) and Le Mans on and off over the years.

Originally Posted by bentley speed 8

Weren't the Audis pretty much off-pace the whole of last year? Yet they still managed to win two races last year, including Le Mans.

I don't think it's time to talk so negatively about Toyota after just one race, where they still managed to get both cars to the finish without problems, unlike both Audi and Porsche.

I would be more worried about Nissan....

Yes if I were Nissan, I'd be worried too. Worried that their Le Mans race is going to be a disaster most likely.

Otherwise I'm not concerned with Nissan. They will be mostly a non-factor, expect maybe to be traffic for the other cars or get in the way and cause an accident or two.

[chernaudi]

I think that we can't really say that Toyota are bad or going backwards so much as Audi and Porsche have caught up? After all, Audi and Porsche now know what they have to deal with and how to counter it, like Mercedes-Benz/Mercedes-AMG vs Ferrari in F1.

We can't count Toyota out because of an "so-so" race at Silverstone, but if they're having issues with speed at Spa and the LM test day, maybe then it'll be time to worry.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by flyingshoppingcart

All the numerous seasons Toyota participated in the WEC and Le Mans in previous years, before 2012 and their current entry in WEC over the last few years.

Here's a bit of background: http://www.toyota-global.com/company...rts/index.html

I'm aware of Toyota's Le Mans history, that wasn't the WEC though, the WEC only exists since 2012.

It makes no sense to look at past programs either as that's no suitable comparison.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Acid09

I'm aware of Toyota's Le Mans history, that wasn't the WEC though, the WEC only exists since 2012.

It makes no sense to look at past programs either as that's no suitable comparison.

Particularly when many of those programs weren't even run by the same people. Dome for the first couple of years, TOM'S Japan and TOM'S GB up to '93, SARD for a while, TMG's precursor in '98-'99...

[chernaudi]

Officially, Toyota Team Europe (TTE) was renamed Toyota Motorsport GmbH (TMG) in 1993, but TMG never fielded a team under their name until the WEC program which started building up in 2011 (the GT-One program was run under the Toyota Motorsport/TTE banner).

But that's splitting hairs a bit--how many people who were at TMG in '98/'99 there in 2011, or even now?

[Simmi]

It was kind of strange seeing Toyota just not quite on it today. To call them also-rans would be harsh as they were always relatively in touch with the #1 car. A few promising stints (mostly Ant) and hints of decent pace which never quite materialised. I don't think that's anything to worry about. But the pace disparity between the #1 and #2 is only going to get bigger this year it seems.

That said, I think we all know if you offered Toyota the season Audi had last year they'd rip your arm off taking it.

[Articus]

None of the cars looked that good this weekend. The Porsche just losing it's edge. The Audi's despite the downforce looked to have suspension issues. At times it looked and sounded like the car was bouncing around on flat racetrack... The Toyota just never really featured.

Lots of sorting out to do from everyone. What was the word about Toyota switching Supercapacitor systems on Friday?

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Articus

The Audi's despite the downforce looked to have suspension issues. At times it looked and sounded like the car was bouncing around on flat racetrack...

I get the point you're making that R18 chassis/suspension seems to be very stiff (moreso than the others), but the old sections of Silverstone are anything but flat.

Granted, post-Arena a significant percentage of the track is rather (too) smooth and flat, but most of the circuit still isn't

[TF110]

Read Toyota's PR, they know Silverstone is not their type of track (could have fooled me). In fact it's their worst track on the calendar. Spa will be different for them. They were the first to double stint, and by watching live timing, they were at least consistent on the double stint. Audi was able to do a few 1:40's and 41's but mostly they were in the same bracket as Toyota when they both doubled. Tire wear should definitely be a strong point this season.

[Hiro]

Based on the times in quali, toyota might have less downforce than others (quick at S1 and S3), but porsche has higher top speed than toyota with possibly higher downforce.

At LM, porsche will have an extreme top speed. Toyota needs to counter porsche's top speed as well as good fuel efficiency. Audi's l/d package will also be as strong as porsche.

This year will be tough for toyota, but I hope they will be quicker at Spa and later. Last year their L/D package has better balance than the H/D one according to them, and silverstone never be their circuit according to the drivers, so this year there will be still hope for them.

[ederss7]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Another? Like the last one?

Silverstone is not very indicative of Toyota's performance, the lack of hard braking zones is a big problem for them.

I think it's safe to say that they don't have a dominant car this year but they might very well be up there. One thing to consider is that Toyota had zero technical problems, Porsche & Audi had severe problems with one of their cars.

Counting them out after one single race is really silly.

Porsche had severe problems because one of their cars retired, Audi didn't. The problem with the #8 was that the nose was loose.
Btw, Toyota were running with LD or HD?

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Hiro

Based on the times in quali, toyota might have less downforce than others (quick at S1 and S3), but porsche has higher top speed than toyota with possibly higher downforce.

At LM, porsche will have an extreme top speed. Toyota needs to counter porsche's top speed as well as good fuel efficiency. Audi's l/d package will also be as strong as porsche.

This year will be tough for toyota, but I hope they will be quicker at Spa and later. Last year their L/D package has better balance than the H/D one according to them, and silverstone never be their circuit according to the drivers, so this year there will be still hope for them.

Ideal time was a 1:39.7 in qualifying, better than Audi's ideal. That to me shows theyre going to be mega quick when the hybrid is fully used to its potential. Their top speed was impressive at Paul Ricard, and we know thats down to engine power and aero. They cant use the hybrid to augment their top speed like Porsche can.

[Spyderman]

Post-race interviews:http://www.racer.com/wec-le-mans/ite...ace-interviews

[kvenom]

Ant does not sound positive at all. Pretty worrying.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by cokata

They won 2 races in which Toyota had problems. In Le Mans they were close to the speed of the Toyota, but still slightly slower. And in COTA buemi had the most dominant stint of the whole season, but then the weather changed the whole race.

Audi, specially with Lotterer, had the fastest race pace(not only the fastest race lap) at Le Mans, actually

Going by Davidson's interview, I think Toyota will struggle all year, sadly.

Originally Posted by TF110

Read Toyota's PR, they know Silverstone is not their type of track (could have fooled me). In fact it's their worst track on the calendar. Spa will be different for them. They were the first to double stint, and by watching live timing, they were at least consistent on the double stint. Audi was able to do a few 1:40's and 41's but mostly they were in the same bracket as Toyota when they both doubled. Tire wear should definitely be a strong point this season.

Lotterer double stinted the tires too and there was a point in the end of his second stint that he clocked 42.3 which is on par with Porsche and Toyota's fastest laps. Audi's best is 1,4s faster

[gustavobamba]

Antony seems very very worry about the car pace… PROBABLY not very good day´s from TOYOTA ahead… let´s see what happens in SPA

[flyingshoppingcart]

Yeah, from the PR and interviews, seems like Toyota is confident they will be better at Spa. However at the same time, the drivers seem hesitant and not very confident that they will be outright faster than Audi or Porsche. Putting so much emphasis on the car having good tire wear, without giving a lot of emphasis on other performance metrics isn't exactly very confidence-inspiring.

Remains to be seen how much better Toyota can do.

Originally Posted by Acid09

I'm aware of Toyota's Le Mans history, that wasn't the WEC though, the WEC only exists since 2012.

It makes no sense to look at past programs either as that's no suitable comparison.

Point taken, however the key remains is that Toyota headquarters approved of, and greenlighted all those programs. So not until the recent entry into the WEC, combined with Toyota's hybrid expertise, have they seen some sort of success at the top level of international sports car racing. Le Mans still remains elusive for them though. It must especially be a sore point over at Toyota HQ because Toyota and Lexus in the past won Rolex Sport Car Series races in the US many times, including multiple wins at the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Artur

Audi, specially with Lotterer, had the fastest race pace(not only the fastest race lap) at Le Mans, actually

And with a busted hybrid system as well. However I think it's probable that the #7 would have gone faster [than the #2] in the more favourable conditions had it survived the night intact.

Spa will be better for TMG and let's be fair - they were less than a minute* off after 6 hours at a circuit that is unrepresentative of the rest of the calendar. However the VAG bros seem to have the extremes of pace covered between them so I think it will take more than good tyre wear (because you can bet that Audi won't be poor on tyre wear at the very least) for the TS040 to fight back.

*Taking into account the #7's track limit stop-go

[flyingshoppingcart]

Originally Posted by Artur

Audi, specially with Lotterer, had the fastest race pace(not only the fastest race lap) at Le Mans, actually

Going by Davidson's interview, I think Toyota will struggle all year, sadly.

Lotterer double stinted the tires too and there was a point in the end of his second stint that he clocked 42.3 which is on par with Porsche and Toyota's fastest laps. Audi's best is 1,4s faster

Yeah Davidson's comments especially seem very worrying, given what he was implying for the rest of the season. Also troubling is he didn't even mention Le Mans at all.

In a way it's not fair for Toyota, the fact that they don't have Lotterer, as he's locked up by Audi. It's a bit of tragic or cruel irony, since Toyota all those years had Lotterer racing for them in Super GT, and even recently he's still been racing for a Toyota team under Formula Nippon/Super Formula in Japan. Yet they can't have him for the WEC.

Originally Posted by J Jay

And with a busted hybrid system as well. However I think it's probable that the #7 would have gone faster [than the #2] in the more favourable conditions had it survived the night intact.

Spa will be better for TMG but it needs to be. The VAG bros seem to have the extremes of pace covered between them so I think it will take more than good tyre wear for the TS040 to fight back.

Exactly. If Toyota and drivers keep repeating their good tire wear spiel, then it doesn't look good at all for the rest of the season. They're going to need much more than that to fight for wins.

[cokata]

The worst thing is that now the car has no strengths compared to the competitors. It has mediocre aero and hybrid system, and if the engine is still a strong point it will only really make a big difference at Le Mans.

The only thing that they have going for them is that IMO the #1 has the quickest driver crew of the grid, so if they can get closer in some of the races they can make the difference, other than that it looks this year will be as bad as 2013 for Toyota.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by cokata

The worst thing is that now the car has no strengths compared to the competitors. It has mediocre aero and hybrid system, and if the engine is still a strong point it will only really make a big difference at Le Mans.

The only thing that they have going for them is that IMO the #1 has the quickest driver crew of the grid, so if they can get closer in some of the races they can make the difference, other than that it looks this year will be as bad as 2013 for Toyota.

They still finished both cars, with one on the podium. I'm not worried about Toyota's ability for the rest of the races. Plus look at how Audi did at Silverstone last year, did anybody think they would win Le Mans after a double DNF? Toyota will be fine!

[Giba]

Silverstone is Toyota's weakest track on the calendar and they finished on the podium and were very close to the top 2 cars in the end. It is too early to count them out for the championship or Le Mans

[Articus]

Originally Posted by flyingshoppingcart

Yeah Davidson's comments especially seem very worrying, given what he was implying for the rest of the season. Also troubling is he didn't even mention Le Mans at all.

In a way it's not fair for Toyota, the fact that they don't have Lotterer, as he's locked up by Audi. It's a bit of tragic or cruel irony, since Toyota all those years had Lotterer racing for them in Super GT, and even recently he's still been racing for a Toyota team under Formula Nippon/Super Formula in Japan. Yet they can't have him for the WEC.

Toyota don't need Lotterer. They have Davidson.