Bourdais to test for Toro Roso

[JohnSSC]

While I do not believe that it is necessary to have done so in order to discuss how another person may or may not have reacted to pressure, the short answer is: "yes."

My take here is this: if you don't bin it every once in a while, you are not trying hard enough. While you don't want to do this in testing regularly, with everything that is changing - especially the spec tire - a driver is going to need to know where the knife edge really is.

[norman-normal]

That seems like a left handed attempt to answer your own question.

My short answer is: competitive people don't like to be bested especially in their car that they are not yet signed to drive, and a contract that is running out. But I assumed you could have figured that out with out any help; could it be that you are just trying out a little "flame bating"?

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

My take here is this: if you don't bin it every once in a while, you are not trying hard enough. While you don't want to do this in testing regularly, with everything that is changing - especially the spec tire - a driver is going to need to know where the knife edge really is.

I agree, its the same driving any car. You dont know where the cars limit is until you have gone over it. Yes you can argue there are other ways to tell where the cars limit is and that you can feel when the back end is stepping out too much but really it isnt a fool proof method, and that isnt really a way of telling how close to the edge the brakes are. Sometimes you have to push a little too hard in order to find the cars limits. If you do that sometimes its ok, providing you learn from it.

[JohnSSC]

My own background is no more important than yours is, norman, in re: having an opinion here.

If you think I am flame-baiting here, then please, feel free to alert a moderator or utilize the "ignore" feature.

Saleen, I agree. I don't have the exact number but it seemed to me that more folks than usual had "offs" this last testing round. There were also a number of comments by Teams and drivers about coming to terms with having less grip. There was also rain, etc. To presuppose that a driver had an off because he had the yips does not completely take into account the other variables.

[gttouring]

tut tut back on topic Gentlemen

any way- are the results for Boudais really good to place him in consideration for a seat? in 08 no less. good for him, but would one want to race in F1 as a STR driver, or not? For him he is the champ3 times over, and has a nice following i feel, would be a shame for him to show poorly compared to his obvious talent and skill

[D.R.T.]

A car influenced by Adrian Newey and powered by a Ferrari shouldnt be a too bad a proposition. Funding may becoe more of an issue though

[JohnSSC]

I think that SB's "problem" is that while he is quick and technically adept, so are a lot of younger drivers who also have financial backing. This is no knock on him as I consider him to be "F1 capable" it is just as time goes on he gets not just older, but perhaps "stereotyped" as a driver.

Fair or unfair, I believe this is the reality for him.

[Snrub]

^ While financial backing might be required for Midland and maybe Super Aguri, I don't think it is for the other teams. I think the backing certainly helps one get into a position in the lower levels such that teams will notice them (eg. because better funded cars are usually faster cars).

[SALEEN S7R]

I think that financial backing is also required for teams such as Torro Rosso, drivers like Liuzzi arent in the team on talent alone. IMO. It's a good thing that Bourdais is in Champcar earning lots of money, I think he may need some of it whether its a small ammount or large.

The same too could be said of Spyker, yes they are a factory team but in the smallest possible terms. I would be very suprised of Monterio and Albers arent bringing some serious backing to the team.

[Snrub]

It's interesting, Luizzi has said that he is not worried by Bourdais' performance in the test. He's said that Bourdais probably thought he could come over and be faster than everyone else, which Luizzi claims did not occur. (Luizzi was .2s faster in a Red Bull car, NOT the Torro Rosso car)

[norman-normal]

Wasn't a very cool thing to say; sounds a bit desperate.

[indycool]

http://torontosun.com/Sports/OtherSp...53506-sun.html

[kootje]

S.B will test again at Torro Rosso...

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/34890/

Grtz Kootje

[SALEEN S7R]

Interesting, as Berger has said this will give us a more clear indication of Bourdais ultimate potential. Personally I hope he performs well and puts himself firmly in the frame for a race seat in 2008.

[norman-normal]

Berger also stated that Bourdais has the kind of serious focus he likes and isn't out partying every night.

Some other sites suggested that TR may be looking to buy out the NH contract for 2007.

[Snrub]

Even if Toro Rosso is willing to shell out substantial money, would NH forgo probably a better than 50/50 shot at the championship for extra money? Would McD's sponsorship remain if another driver was to drive in Bourdais' place? I think they'd probably need at least $5M and perhaps as much as say $8M to let Bourdais go at this stage. Berger has also announced that he wants pay drivers. Given these issue it probably doesn't make sense for 2007.

[JohnSSC]

I think if Bourdais gets a phone call from Berger offering him a seat in 2007 he is going to jump on it so fast it will make your nose bleed.

Now, I am sure he has a contract and all and NH is (it seems) one of the few independently-funded teams in CC and further, are not listing $$ as a criterion for gaining a seat. Every Friday I go to McDonalds with my 15 year old to get breakfast before school and the next CC related display I see (let alone one with SB on it) will be the first one I have seen - ever. The McDonalds tie-in with NH is due to PLN, not Bourdais.

That being said, NH will field whomever, get a settlement to buyout the last year of SB's contract and off he will go.

Now, the interesting part will be how Toro Rosso reimburses NH for that final year. Perhaps it will be in the form of a very disappointed Scott Speed, or a very disappointed and disoriented Liuzzi (the US is not ready for his particular sense of style in personal dress); or some other driver from the Red Bull stable. Or some combination of cash, a driver and whatever is behind Door Number Three.

No offense Snrub, but $5 - $8 million to let Bourdais go? That is almost outlandish. You could field a whole team (2 cars worth) for that much and SB is not the whole team by a long way. A valuable part but not $5 million worth.

Red Bull provides a driver (and they have some talented ones) and pays his salary, SB gets his F1 ride, Haas gets the seat filled with a talent he does not have to pay and PLN keeps McDonalds on the sidepods. Nearly everyone will be happy. Exceot of course Speed or Liuzzi.

[D.R.T.]

If Toro Rosso need money for the seats I still cant see why they would be going for Bourdais in 07. 08 most definately.

[JohnSSC]

Likely his manager, that Todt fellow, has secured sponsorship contingent on SB being confirmed as having one of the race seats.

His dad, I understand knows a few people!

Connections are everything.

[NoGuts-NoGlory]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

If Toro Rosso need money for the seats I still cant see why they would be going for Bourdais in 07. 08 most definately.

Well here's how Berger gets his money and the drivers he wants:

Berger met with Viso on Wed regarding a tester role for the team. He has the Venezuelan government backing his ride and brings serious money to the table. Originally, Doornbos was so post to be the test driver but he covets a race seat. He also is reputed to have the ability to bring up to 10 million to STR F1 ride.

So if Berger signs both viso and doornbos he gets not just one but two paid seats at STR.

He than uses the monies from either Viso or Doornbos to pay off NHR for the rights to Seabass for 2007. Berger than puts Sebass and Doornbos in the race seats and Viso in the tester role. Speed goes to CC and liuzzi either is taken on as a red bull tester, goes to GP2 or is offered a red bull ride in cc with RB sponsorship.

Nice tidy solution for berger to get Bourdais in a seat in 2007. If he can convince Mateschitz to agree and i'd bet this is where all the problems and hang-ups have come from. He might be willing let one of his RB recruits off the team but I suspect he is resisting having both turfed!

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Likely his manager, that Todt fellow, has secured sponsorship contingent on SB being confirmed as having one of the race seats.

See when you write it like that it seems so obvious, yet an hour ago such a straight foward connecting A to B didnt enter my mind.

Thanks

[NoGuts-NoGlory]

Looks like Tiago is still in the cards!

EXCLUSIVE: Monteiro on pole for Toro Rosso drive!

Thanks to our sources at Red Bull Racing and Toro Rosso, www.automoto365.com can now exclusively reveal to you that former Midland/Spyker driver Tiago Monteiro, who lost his seat at the now Dutch owned team to German rookie Adrian Sutil recently, is on pole position to land a full time drive with the Scuderia Toro Rosso team for the impending 2007 Formula One championship season.



Despite the fact that both 2006 team drivers, Scott Speed and Tonio Liuzzi, are confident that they will continue with Toro Rosso in 07, nothing has been signed to date and it is obvious that the team is keeping their options open, especially with team boss Gerhard Berger paying a visit to Monteiro’s home nation, Portugal, yesterday.



After recently attempting to sign former McLaren racer Juan Pablo Montoya and triple ChampCar champion, Sebastien Bourdais with no luck, it is obvious that Berger has a very strong say in just who will race for his team, rather than Red Bull Chief Dieter Mateschitz, who owns 50% of the shares and has been touted by other internet media outlets as the main decision maker.



Meanwhile, if Tiago, who was unavailable for comment at the time of writing, doesn’t end up in STR this year, there is still a good chance he could secure the third driver role at parent team, Red Bull Racing, as he is well known in the paddock to be a very fast driver that brings something all small teams need, good sponsorship



However, while funding is very important, Berger confirmed that money is not the only factor in deciding Toro Rosso’s 2007 driver line up….



“Everything is possible, but we would not employ a driver simply because he brings money to the team,” he told the sports official website back in November, and Tiago certainly does just that as he scored the only podium for Jordan/Midland/Spyker in the past two years when he finished third in the 2005 USGP.

[JohnSSC]

Thanks, D.R.T.!

[Jimmy Magnusson]

“Everything is possible, but we would not employ a driver simply because he brings money to the team,” he told the sports official website back in November, and Tiago certainly does just that as he scored the only podium for Jordan/Midland/Spyker in the past two years when he finished third in the 2005 USGP.

Yes, that was a well deserved and hard fought podium

[indycool]

Feverish racing to the front that day.