Is Skaife/888 in the poo?

[billy bigtime]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Is anyone forgetting the whole season 90% of the other co drivers are doing in the fujitsu series?

Sounds like a few slow team managers who wanted skaife have their panties in a twist.

They have cheated and deserve the attention. If it was Skaife doing it in a Ford, who do you reckon would be squealing like a stuck pig? Mr.Dane of course.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by billy bigtime

They have cheated and deserve the attention. If it was Skaife doing it in a Ford, who do you reckon would be squealing like a stuck pig? Mr.Dane of course.

According to the rules newsstalker posted, none were broken = no cheating.

[platinum motors]

I don't see how a V8 supercars sanctioned TV deal can cause such a stir with people. If anyone has an issue they should take it up with V8 Supercar and no one else.

What happens when Crompo or Larko do the TV stunt next time and one of them sets a reasonably competitive time and gets drafted to one of the teams for the enduros ? Would it cause this much of a stir, or is it because it's Triple 8 and Skaife that there's an issue?

[BFC]

Supposed to be the premier catagory in motorsport in Australia and they are all acting like little 3 yr olds in kindergarten................grow up u pack of bloody sooks......there are people dying in earthquakes around the world an all u can do is whinge about someone driving someone elses car what a crying shame

[Aarrgh8]

I think deeks has got the balance pretty right. Make the penalty fit the crime.

Otherwise, shoot 'em.

[dsg]

Clearly Skaife is getting around the rules so he should not be allowed to acccumulate any points for the drivers championship.

[Senna05]

Ok, we've established the rules have been broken.

So, does V8 Supercar get a slap on the wrist for allowing it, does Channel 7 stop the ride stunt and go back to having a "hot lap", or do we question why the teams didn't see an issue with this in Abu Dhabi?

Yes, no doubt Skaife saw an advantage - but aero testing at woomera this was not!

It's great to see the "big" things in our sport being dealt with on a mature level as well..

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Senna05

Ok, we've established the rules have been broken.

I don't agree that we have, 'Promotional activities' are explicitly allowed under conditions set by V8SA. Would this have been done without permission from V8SA? I think not...

[Belly13]

As minor an infringement it may be, the rules were broken. I didn't agree with the Frosty or GT penalties in Abu Dhabi, but they were still penalised for what I believed to be minor infringements. So as G.Rogers explained, it is pretty simple. 888, IMHO, have broken a rule and must be penalised.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by Belly13

As minor an infringement it may be, the rules were broken. I didn't agree with the Frosty or GT penalties in Abu Dhabi, but they were still penalised for what I believed to be minor infringements. So as G.Rogers explained, it is pretty simple. 888, IMHO, have broken a rule and must be penalised.

Which rule did they break?

Read what newsstalker posted, seems perfectly legal to me (and i'm the biggest hater of the T8 free ride, i just dont see this as a breaking of a rule)

[Belly13]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Which rule did they break?

Read what newsstalker posted, seems perfectly legal to me (and i'm the biggest hater of the T8 free ride, i just dont see this as a breaking of a rule)

That the car/driver is not allowed to 'practice' outside of the official practice sessions. If this is not a rule, then what is it?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Belly13

That the car/driver is not allowed to 'practice' outside of the official practice sessions. If this is not a rule, then what is it?

Someone who just can't read what's put in front of them:

D 1.14 Not Comprising Test Days
1.14.1 The following activities will not be regarded as comprising a Test day for the purposes of Rule D 1, but the fact of the activity will be made available to any other Team or Group upon application being made to V8 Supercars:
1.14.1.1 Any activity required by V8 Supercars of a Team, including but not
necessarily limited to tyre testing and/or aero package testing; or
1.14.1.2 Corporate Rides (E 1.2.1); or
1.14.1.3 Driver Evaluation Day (D 1.6); or
1.14.1.4 Demonstration Session (D 1.8); or
1.14.1.5 New Car Shakedown (D 1.9); or
1.14.1.6 Promotional activities (such as filming TV advertisements) run under
permission from V8 Supercars with conditions applied by V8 Supercars.

[Downoz]

[them:[/QUOTE]

D 1.14 Not Comprising Test Days
1.14.1 The following activities will not be regarded as comprising a Test day for the purposes of Rule D 1, but the fact of the activity will be made available to any other Team or Group upon application being made to V8 Supercars:
1.14.1.1 Any activity required by V8 Supercars of a Team, including but not
necessarily limited to tyre testing and/or aero package testing; or
1.14.1.2 Corporate Rides (E 1.2.1); or
1.14.1.3 Driver Evaluation Day (D 1.6); or
1.14.1.4 Demonstration Session (D 1.8); or
1.14.1.5 New Car Shakedown (D 1.9); or
1.14.1.6 Promotional activities (such as filming TV advertisements) run under
permission from V8 Supercars with conditions applied by V8 Supercars




All there in black and white, no case to answer. End of story

[NewsStalker]

Mixer - show the FULL rule including 1.14.2. The problem is that the rule itself conflicts with itself. Also - this scenario clearly wasn't thought of when the rule was written.

So V8SCA have two prolems - fix the conflict in the rule (1.14.2 clearly addresses this as being at a TEST track) and then deermine whether the 'promotional' duties (which are allowed) whould be permitted if the 'promotional' driver is also contracted to be a driver for that team during the year.

One is a legal/techical issue, the other a moral one - both have been broken and need to be fixed.

Thanks Mr. Skaife for having pointed out the ambiguity of ye another V8SCA rule.

[STEALTHY]

So just to clarify, the problem is the way the rule is written, because as the rule is interpreted now, its not being broken.....


thats fine, change the rule, and stop whats happenning, but until that time,build a bridge and get over it (not you personally ns, the people who seem to have a problem with it as it stands now)

[St00ge]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

So just to clarify, the problem is the way the rule is written, because as the rule is interpreted now, its not being broken.....


thats fine, change the rule, and stop whats happenning, but until that time,build a bridge and get over it (not you personally ns, the people who seem to have a problem with it as it stands now)

Are they also going to ban any driver nominated in the enduros from competing in the Fujuitsui championship as well?? Total cr@p IMHO there is nothing wrong with what is happening now.

If I was Roland Dane I would enter Skaife in a Fujitsu race just to pis$ them off some more haha

[NewsStalker]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

So just to clarify, the problem is the way the rule is written, because as the rule is interpreted now, its not being broken.....


thats fine, change the rule, and stop whats happenning, but until that time,build a bridge and get over it (not you personally ns, the people who seem to have a problem with it as it stands now)

Well correct - and incorrect.

Part of the rule says they can do this - another part then states the rule is ONLY applicable to the car arriving at the TEST track - so, if you read the rule in its entirety (which should be done anyway as part 2 adds to part 1) then the rule has been broken (none of the tracks outside Australia are, AFAIK, designated as Test Tracks - therefore - rule broken.

Ethically however - should someone in the media who is hired, by a team, to drive for them in the enduros, then be permitted to conduct ANY type of on track driving of their cars before official testing? Regardless of whether you (the Royal You btw) believe they got any advantage out of the drive, the fact is they ARE in the car, they ARE setting up their own driving positions (seats, harnesses, radios etc) and checking everything out on a race track - something no other co-driver can do until either an official test day or first practice for the actual enduro.

Advantage to Skaife? maybe 3 or 4 laps of settling in.

But - ethically - definately a no-goer and shouldn't have been allowed. Crompton or Larkham should have been the ONLY drivers permitted to 'media drive' the T8 car.

[Go Harder.]

There is at least one other enduro driver who has enjoyed much much more seat time than Skaife... In racing conditions and all!!! So it's entirely possible that any enduro driver can have MORE seat time prior to the enduros than what Skaife can with just 3 or 4 laps here and there... given the opportunity that is... but still possible.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Go Harder.

There is at least one other enduro driver who has enjoyed much much more seat time than Skaife... In racing conditions and all!!! So it's entirely possible that any enduro driver can have MORE seat time prior to the enduros than what Skaife can with just 3 or 4 laps here and there... given the opportunity that is... but still possible.

I assume you mean Morris?

Raises an interesting point - if 888 REALLY wanted to rort the system, one of their drivers could have an "illness" and Skaife could take the car, I can only see that would be within the rules as they are now?

[Go Harder.]

Exactly. Not just 888... any team could.. it would be at the expense of championship points to the driver though... but for anyone who isn't in the hunt.. well.... as for Skaife, it may interfere with his 7 contract... so if anything he may be at a disadvantage when compared with the other drivers

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by NewsStalker

Well correct - and incorrect.

Part of the rule says they can do this - another part then states the rule is ONLY applicable to the car arriving at the TEST track - so, if you read the rule in its entirety (which should be done anyway as part 2 adds to part 1) then the rule has been broken (none of the tracks outside Australia are, AFAIK, designated as Test Tracks - therefore - rule broken.

Ethically however - should someone in the media who is hired, by a team, to drive for them in the enduros, then be permitted to conduct ANY type of on track driving of their cars before official testing? Regardless of whether you (the Royal You btw) believe they got any advantage out of the drive, the fact is they ARE in the car, they ARE setting up their own driving positions (seats, harnesses, radios etc) and checking everything out on a race track - something no other co-driver can do until either an official test day or first practice for the actual enduro.

Advantage to Skaife? maybe 3 or 4 laps of settling in.

But - ethically - definately a no-goer and shouldn't have been allowed. Crompton or Larkham should have been the ONLY drivers permitted to 'media drive' the T8 car.

It's much ado about nothing.

Skaife has turned what? tens of thousands of laps in touring cars?

I somehow doubt a few laps on old tires on a track in the middle east is somehow going to provide him with some blazing enlightenment that will find him 1 second a lap(or whatever) at some race six months from now.

Let's use some logic and common sense.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Let's use some logic and common sense.

Sorry mate this is an internet forum, neither are present for the majority of posters.

[NewsStalker]

I'm not arguing about whether the teams are right or wrong - I merely pointed out the relevant rule and the fact that the rule itself has problems which need to be fixed.

As I said - ethically I don;t believe Skaife should have driven the car - that is a personal opinion and not backed up by any rules.

But when the rules are ambiguous (as this one is) then they need to be fixed and fixed quickly.

[bortall]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainstar
Let's use some logic and common sense.

Originally Posted by Mixer

Sorry mate this is an internet forum, neither are present for the majority of posters.

There isn't a whole let present @ V8SA HQ either

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by NewsStalker

Well correct - and incorrect.

Part of the rule says they can do this - another part then states the rule is ONLY applicable to the car arriving at the TEST track - so, if you read the rule in its entirety (which should be done anyway as part 2 adds to part 1) then the rule has been broken (none of the tracks outside Australia are, AFAIK, designated as Test Tracks - therefore - rule broken.

Ethically however - should someone in the media who is hired, by a team, to drive for them in the enduros, then be permitted to conduct ANY type of on track driving of their cars before official testing? Regardless of whether you (the Royal You btw) believe they got any advantage out of the drive, the fact is they ARE in the car, they ARE setting up their own driving positions (seats, harnesses, radios etc) and checking everything out on a race track - something no other co-driver can do until either an official test day or first practice for the actual enduro.

Advantage to Skaife? maybe 3 or 4 laps of settling in.

But - ethically - definately a no-goer and shouldn't have been allowed. Crompton or Larkham should have been the ONLY drivers permitted to 'media drive' the T8 car.

The wording can be taken either way. It just says 'test track', nothing about a VESA approved test track. The exemption is clearly 'show laps at each circuit' so that has to be done at each place we go.....