The Historically Accurate EV discussion

GORDON STREETER · 11 Feb 2020, 23:52 (Ref:3957107)

I read an article that claims electric hybrids are more polluting that conventional petrol cars because people can't be bothered to charge them up on the mains ! It went into great detail that lost me after a couple of lines

Gerard C · 12 Feb 2020, 06:46 (Ref:3957120)

What?

crmalcolm · 12 Feb 2020, 06:57 (Ref:3957121)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

I read an article that claims electric hybrids are more polluting that conventional petrol cars because people can't be bothered to charge them up on the mains ! It went into great detail that lost me after a couple of lines

Reminds me of a colleague who I used to car pool with. They drove a plug in hybrid, and first time in they were keen to show me how they could complete the commute on electric only.

As your article suggests - never plugged it in, never drove on all-electric except when demonstrating to others how good it is!

Mike Bell · 12 Feb 2020, 08:21 (Ref:3957129)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

I read an article that claims electric hybrids are more polluting that conventional petrol cars because people can't be bothered to charge them up on the mains ! It went into great detail that lost me after a couple of lines

Plug in hybrids are the problem, and as has been said (on more than one occasion

) on here, manufacturers desperate to avoid or reduce huge fines for not meeting the CO2 targets are churning them out left, right and centre. Majority will be driven by company car users in order to take advantage of lower BIK tax, and they won’t bother to install a charger at home if have to at their own expense! The whole state of affairs is ridiculous....

**Peter Mallett** · 12 Feb 2020, 09:10 (Ref:3957144)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

..............The whole state of affairs is ridiculous....

I concur. I'm also not certain what other European States are doing in this respect. I do know that they are rolling out charging stations on a pretty rapid basis. The principle of making tight timelines is a useful management tool when trying to change working practices, I'm not sure it works with us, the great unwashed.

The purchase cost of an EV is still prohibitive for many and this in itself will be the biggest problem. Then requiring all homes to go all electric is another one which will cost the populace loads of dosh. FWIW I don't see this as party political since whoever won the latest election would be backed into the ER/Saint Greta myth.

I've still got my name on the Mach E but I keep seeing Focus STs.........

John Elwin · 12 Feb 2020, 10:04 (Ref:3957166)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I concur. I'm also not certain what other European States are doing in this respect. I do know that they are rolling out charging stations on a pretty rapid basis. The principle of making tight timelines is a useful management tool when trying to change working practices, I'm not sure it works with us, the great unwashed.

The purchase cost of an EV is still prohibitive for many and this in itself will be the biggest problem. Then requiring all homes to go all electric is another one which will cost the populace loads of dosh. FWIW I don't see this as party political since whoever won the latest election would be backed into the ER/Saint Greta myth.

I've still got my name on the Mach E but I keep seeing Focus STs.........

I don't know if this link will work on here, but I hope so, it's brilliant!

VID-20200210-WA0000 No, doesn't seem to unfortunately.

GORDON STREETER · 12 Feb 2020, 10:46 (Ref:3957172)

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They warn us about not smoking at the petrol pumps!

Tel 911S · 12 Feb 2020, 10:48 (Ref:3957173)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I concur. I'm also not certain what other European States are doing in this respect. I do know that they are rolling out charging stations on a pretty rapid basis. The principle of making tight timelines is a useful management tool when trying to change working practices, I'm not sure it works with us, the great unwashed.

The purchase cost of an EV is still prohibitive for many and this in itself will be the biggest problem. Then requiring all homes to go all electric is another one which will cost the populace loads of dosh. FWIW I don't see this as party political since whoever won the latest election would be backed into the ER/Saint Greta myth.

I've still got my name on the Mach E but I keep seeing Focus STs.........

Link to one of the FES papers .https://www.current-news.co.uk/news/...ecarbonisation

One of the reasons for all of the propaganda for EVs is so that they can use them as a battery storage for the grid . V2G . I did read that they wanted to be able to take back up to 20 GWh of energy from plugged in cars for when the blackouts come .That would be nice , finding that your car had all of its charge taken out of it one night .

But the car manufacturers are not very keen . Because Li batteries have a limited life of just so many charge cycles , the manufacturers are worried that a lot more battery sets would be failing within their guarantee period.

So I would be looking a bit closer at the Focus Peter .

**bella** · 12 Feb 2020, 14:03 (Ref:3957225)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I concur. I'm also not certain what other European States are doing in this respect. I do know that they are rolling out charging stations on a pretty rapid basis. The principle of making tight timelines is a useful management tool when trying to change working practices, I'm not sure it works with us, the great unwashed.

The purchase cost of an EV is still prohibitive for many and this in itself will be the biggest problem. Then requiring all homes to go all electric is another one which will cost the populace loads of dosh. FWIW I don't see this as party political since whoever won the latest election would be backed into the ER/Saint Greta myth.

I've still got my name on the Mach E but I keep seeing Focus STs.........

to be honest a full ev is a bit of a no-go for me too. i can't charge it at work due to parking logistics, and both my commutes are at the top end of the range for most anyway.

the hybrids are lovely but the combustion bit is so horrendously inefficient that for those of us who mainly do motorway miles, live in hilly areas and don't do much city nonsense they're just not appealing enough yet. it's obviously not far away, but it's too far away for there to be a significant penalty applied to people stuck using petrol cars with no public transport options.

**Peter Mallett** · 12 Feb 2020, 14:32 (Ref:3957228)

Frankly I don't advocate EVs for all. In my circumstances a long range vehicle (350ish miles) is good enough. Plus the savings on fuel etc. make sense. I've got approximately 10 years of driving left so with a home charger I'd be fine.

Towns are the big problem since not everyone can install a charger especially on a row of town houses.

The big worry is depreciation. Whatever you buy now will be worthless in ten years either because the batteries are dead, or nobody will be able to afford to run a ICE vehicle.

crmalcolm · 12 Feb 2020, 15:29 (Ref:3957241)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

The big worry is depreciation. Whatever you buy now will be worthless in ten years either because the batteries are dead, or nobody will be able to afford to run a ICE vehicle.

Producers of EVs are improving the battery situation all the time.
10yr old EVs are not worthless now, so why would it be different in 2030?

**Peter Mallett** · 12 Feb 2020, 15:40 (Ref:3957243)

I think because they guarantee them for eight years but at ten years there's a strong possibility you'd need to replace them. Agreed the technology is moving rapidly.

crmalcolm · 12 Feb 2020, 15:48 (Ref:3957247)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I think because they guarantee them for eight years but at ten years there's a strong possibility you'd need to replace them. Agreed the technology is moving rapidly.

I think the guarantees being given for such a long period are designed to allay fears of battery failure. There are lots of Prius' and Leafs (Leaves?) on the road with batteries over 10yrs in age that are still running fine (albeit with some sign of reduced capacity).

There are reports that suggest the battery failure of LEAF units (capacity reduced to below 80%) is a total of 3 in 35,000 over 5 years.

If we expect failure of the essential component in an automobile to fail shortly after the warranty expires, then Mercedes-Benz's should be dropping in year 4, Renaults in year 5, and Kias sometime in year 8.

andy97 · 12 Feb 2020, 20:51 (Ref:3957314)

Quote:

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Producers of EVs are improving the battery situation all the time.
10yr old EVs are not worthless now, so why would it be different in 2030?

A couple of years ago Mrs97 did a project at Toyota near Derby for a few days. As part of her visit they gave her a guided tour - when it came to discussing the Prius (not part of her project) the Toyota engineers admitted they had absolutely no idea how long the batteries would last or how to recycle them both safely and cost effectively.

grantp · 12 Feb 2020, 21:21 (Ref:3957318)

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy97

A couple of years ago Mrs97 did a project at Toyota near Derby for a few days. As part of her visit they gave her a guided tour - when it came to discussing the Prius (not part of her project) the Toyota engineers admitted they had absolutely no idea how long the batteries would last or how to recycle them both safely and cost effectively.

Perhaps they could sell a few of the old ones to JLR for the iPace. They seem to have a shortage of batteries at the moment according to their press release about shutting down output for a while.

12,232 sold in Europe and 2,594 in the USA last year.