WEC LMP1 vs ALMS GTE

[Dyson Mazda]

Which do you guys feel is a better class once the Vipers join. ALMS GTE or WEC LMP1.

WEC LMP1
1 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 Hybrid
2 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 Hybrid
7 Toyota Racing Toyota TS030 Hybrid
12 Rebellion Racing Lola 12/60-Toyota
13 Rebellion Racing Lola 12/60-Toyota
15 Oak Racing Oak Pescarolo-Judd
16 Pescarolo Racing Pescarolo 03 Judd
21 Strakka Racing HPD ARX-03a-Honda
22 JRM HPD ARX-03a-Honda

ALMS GTE
01 Extreme Motorsports Ferrari 458 Italia
02 Extreme Motorsports Ferrari 458 Italia
3 Corvette Racing Corvette C6R ZR1
4 Corvette Racing Corvette C6R ZR1
17 Falken Racing Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
23 Alex Job Racing Lotus Evora GTE
44 Flying Lizards Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
45 Flying Lizards Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
48 Paul Miller Racing Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
55 BMW RLL BMW M3 GT2
56 BMW RLL BMW M3 GT2
91 Viper Racing Viper GTS-R
92 Viper Racing Viper GTS-R

Also Aston Martin needs to pull thier program out of WEC GTE Pro class and head to the ALMS. If the ALMS can homologate the GT3 versions of the Audi R8, the McLaren, and the Z4 it is going to be a heck of a party.

[Canada ALMS fan]

The competition is better in ALMS GT but the WEC LMP1 has way more sex appeal.
As for your last statement, how could anyone not agree and want this 100%?

[pederb]

Why would a GT car run in LMP1 ?

[Fogelhund]

The ALMS GT category is already probably the best collection of Sportscars in a series in history. Add in Viper later this year, and NSX for 2014 and it is truly epic.

It is sad that they will race behind some amateur no-name prototypes, and spec cars... they ARE THE SHOW. These nameplates at the front of the grid are much more marketable.

http://lastturnclub.com/index.php?op...=716&Itemid=51

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

The ALMS GT category is already probably the best collection of Sportscars in a series in history. Add in Viper later this year, and NSX for 2014 and it is truly epic.

It is sad that they will race behind some amateur no-name prototypes, and spec cars... they ARE THE SHOW. These nameplates at the front of the grid are much more marketable.

The protos add more sex appeal to the series. Don't eliminate folks that want to and can spend more, just focus the broadcasts on the GT class, where the manufacturer $ is. Multi-class adds a nice dynamic to the racing IMO.

[Simmi]

I'd wait for the 2014 regs and new machinery before getting too excited.

You can get rid of the BMWs and the Evora for starters. Really love watching the ALMS GT racing. I'd like to think that both classes have great potential for the future, even if I don't really see the point of the comparison?

[Fogelhund]

Your headliner, and the perception of any series will always be the health of their fastest and lead category. For all purposes, the ALMS is an HPD and two Lola's. Does it make any sense to anyone, to market Cytosport HPD, or Dyson Lola.... over Corvette Racing, Viper Racing, Porsche, Ferrari, BMW... NSX... That is what is being done... those are the cars that are at the front for the green flag, those are the cars that get the checkered flag, and get the overall podium. P1 is the headliner, and defines the ALMS.

I agree with multi-class racing.

If you went GT, you would need a sub-GT category. Something along the lines of a GT4, Grand Am GS category, ensuring that the nameplates in this class, are not the same as GT. 370Z, Cayman, Camaro, BMW 335, Mustang, RX8, etc...

I have been led to believe, that BMW is actively working on, and may have begun testing a Z4 for the ALMS, and the GT category, to replace the M3.

I never counted the Evora to begin with, though AJR might surprise a few.

[cmk]

Concur that the ALMS GT field is a benchmark for sportscar racing around the globe over the last good many years. A superb batch of factory-supported programs. In some ways it would/will be better with a Z4 but I do enjoy the variety the M3 brings to the field. Right now the biggest hole is the lack of a fully factory-supported 458. Aston could come to the party as well now that they look to have a car with the pace to compete.

[Articus]

I think the biggest hole is the lack of a proper Porsche.Ferrari may not be factory run but those cars are the quickest out there.There nothing like winning to fund your team.

If that tidbit about a BMW Z4 GT2 is true. That would be fantastic! Now especially with rumours swirling of a Z4M.. And the issue of the Z4 GT3 existing but not having a sufficient road counterpart. And with rumours of BMw trying to race in SGT as well. they are serious about GT racing!. Looks like we wont see them in LMP an time soon.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by Articus

Ferrari may not be factory run but those cars are the quickest out there...

The cars might be the best, but the best Ferrari teams are in Europe where the cars are factory run.

[Articus]

Unfortunately. Any news on Risi lately?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Articus

I think the biggest hole is the lack of a proper Porsche.Ferrari may not be factory run but those cars are the quickest out there.There nothing like winning to fund your team.

The Lizards #45 is a good entry, but they need two cars with good drivers. The same could be said for Ferrari in North America.

I believe if the GT's became the headliners, you would see both.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Brett, from a business perspective for sponsors I cannot argue, it makes sense.
From my heart, if the series loses prototypes, it will not be the same. The Le Mans tie in is huge for me. That and the fact that there are LMPs are what differentiates the ALMS from GT1, GT3, GT Open, Blancpain, etc. Another key point is that the cars in the ALMS are aspirational rides, ones that people work towards and are very special. Diluting the series with more "regular" type vehicles again takes away the cache of that the ALMS stands for, excellence and technology. This is the same reason while I understand the economic need for the Challenge classes, I cannot stand them. If I want to watch a lower class of GT racing I will watch GA or Conti. Those cars should be support series IMO, not in the big show.

[Dyson Mazda]

The Lizards #45 is a good entry, but they need two cars with good drivers. The same could be said for Ferrari in North America.

I believe if the GT's became the headliners, you would see both.

I hope the ALMS adds the GT3 cars for next year, goes for the Pro/Am format that is seen in the WEC, and cuts out the GTC Porsches.

[Speed-King]

I have been led to believe, that BMW is actively working on, and may have begun testing a Z4 for the ALMS, and the GT category, to replace the M3.

Seeing how BMW was the main force behind the push for a US-DTM, does that mean that that project is DOA?

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

I hope the ALMS adds the GT3 cars for next year, goes for the Pro/Am format that is seen in the WEC, and cuts out the GTC Porsches.

Yeah me too, that would make a lot of sense. Ok so the GT3 cars wouldn't be a lot faster than the GTC cars but you would at least have more variety which is what sportscar racing is all about isn't it? GT3 for me is a legitimate class and deserves its place in the sportscar world, not GT4 though, can't stand that class.

[Speed-King]

Ok so the GT3 cars wouldn't be a lot faster than the GTC cars but you would at least have more variety which is what sportscar racing is all about isn't it?

Oh, they are! They can be right with the GTE-runners if they get the right restrictors (unlike in International GT-Open where the GTEs run wide open).

And GT4 has/had the potential to be awesome... it's just that the SRO seems to have tried really hard to screw that up. But that's for another thread.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

The protos add more sex appeal to the series. Don't eliminate folks that want to and can spend more, just focus the broadcasts on the GT class, where the manufacturer $ is. Multi-class adds a nice dynamic to the racing IMO.

Sex Appeal? BHHs and BHFs versus cars like the 458 and the Viper you've just seen? Make this the showcase of the series, get a decent promoter/owner that actually gives a damn about the series and doesn't suck off manufacturer teets without putting hardly any money into promotion with real television and this could potentially become a big deal.

ALMS GT is going to be epic next year while the only prototype growth looks to be in Pro/Am classes, Grand Am will have over 20 GT cars at Homestead with just about ten prototypes, Blancpain is filled with cars, ADAC Masters arguably has the best local media deal in Sports car racing along with 40 cars to go with it, British GT/GT Open/other are all healthy.

Imagine, Ferrari 458s, Porsche 911s, Chevrolet Corvettes, Dodge Vipers, Audi R8s, Mercedes SLSs, BMW Z4s, NSXs, and more racing overall. Compare this to Dyson Lola Mazda AER vs Cytosport HPD or even Audi R18 "vs" Toyota TMG TS030 Hybrids. GT racing is the way of the future, and what SPORTSCAR racing is supposed to be. In addition, it's also something that can get people really excited about the sport (mostly through millions of fanboys), something sportscar racing needs.

[Speed-King]

Also - if GT became the main category manufacturers might find it justifiable to invest a little more in advanced aero dynamics, giving them a more prototype-ish look.

Imagine, e.g. the Porsche, but with a widebody kit that filled the gap between the front and the rear wheel arches like the old 935s in IMSA used to have it.

[Rodger Davies]

to the original question, no doubt to me that I'd rather see the GTs any day, but I fear we'll only get to see the Vipers and M3s together once or twice at most, I doubt the Beemers will be back again next season.

[Dyson Mazda]

to the original question, no doubt to me that I'd rather see the GTs any day, but I fear we'll only get to see the Vipers and M3s together once or twice at most, I doubt the Beemers will be back again next season.

It sounds like they (RLR/BMW NA) are going to go to a modified GT3 Z4 next year. I get the feeling that BMW NA finds the ALMS worth their marketing dollars.

[Acid09]

Prototypes always trump GTs in terms of excitement, even if it's just customer cars. The look, the corner speed etc.... it's simply more exciting.

In the end, GTs still look somewhat like the cars you see on the road, they simply lack the sex appeal and the exotic flavor of LMPs.

When prototypes and GTs are sharing the track, GTs will always be the sideshow, regardless of the manufacturers involved.

The ADAC GT Masters is an awesome series for sure but in the end it's just GT3s. It simply isn't the same as watching prototypes having high-speed battles, nothing compares to that.

[Canada ALMS fan]

^Plus LMP2 seems to really be gaining traction globally, so why dump a class that is just gaining momentum and has rules stability through 2015?
Also, I agree the ALMS needs to adopt the GTE Pro/AM format instead of GTC, I am sure at least a couple of the GTC teams would step up plus you would get an ESM Ferrari, a Flying Lizard, and maybe Tracy Krohn? Gets us away from the spec racing but the series is addicted to the Porsche & Yokohama cash from GTC.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Prototypes always trump GTs in terms of excitement, even if it's just customer cars. The look, the corner speed etc.... it's simply more exciting.

In the end, GTs still look somewhat like the cars you see on the road, they simply lack the sex appeal and the exotic flavor of LMPs.

When prototypes and GTs are sharing the track, GTs will always be the sideshow, regardless of the manufacturers involved.

The ADAC GT Masters is an awesome series for sure but in the end it's just GT3s. It simply isn't the same as watching prototypes having high-speed battles, nothing compares to that.

I wholeheartedly disagree, GT cars are more exciting to look at then the ugly protos, part of the reason they are so exiting is becouose you can easily relate with them, If you are a porsche fan, that thing racing around is deffinatly a porsche, while a audi/peugeut/toyota, just look like generic prototype molds, with some bits and pieces added...

[Dyson Mazda]

Prototypes always trump GTs in terms of excitement, even if it's just customer cars. The look, the corner speed etc.... it's simply more exciting.

In the end, GTs still look somewhat like the cars you see on the road, they simply lack the sex appeal and the exotic flavor of LMPs.

When prototypes and GTs are sharing the track, GTs will always be the sideshow, regardless of the manufacturers involved.

The ADAC GT Masters is an awesome series for sure but in the end it's just GT3s. It simply isn't the same as watching prototypes having high-speed battles, nothing compares to that.

I am sorry but this



trumps this



any day of the week in terms of looks and sex appeal. I think the thing that makes us sportscar fans over F1 fans is the relationship to the cars themselves and at the end of the day that Viper is something I cannot wait to see on the track and on the street. I used to be all about the prototype racing but the recession and the FIA/ACO has taken that away from the great and loyal sports car fans here in North America and I have really gotten into the GT class over the last few years. The new rules have destroyed the wow factor that the LMP1's have to the point where Grand Am sports a better visual formula. The Audi R18 and the new Toyota are flat out ugly cars (I do like the new Dyson Lola, but it does not compare to the Panoz LMP01's, the Audi R8's, the Ferrari 333SP's and the MG-Lola's I grew up drooling over). At the end of the day I would currently take the ALMS field and schedule over what the WEC has to offer (assuming Le Mans is a neutral race).