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Old 11 Apr 2023, 22:51 (Ref:4151155)   #1451
Compromised
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Compromised should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Some may scoff at the expense, but knowing the drivers are safer and won't be burnt alive like the bad old days is pricless
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Old 12 Apr 2023, 04:35 (Ref:4151162)   #1452
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but knowing the drivers are safer and won't be burnt.
We are deffinately trying to burn them at the moment, going by the last round

I thought Gen 3 was suppose to make this all cheaper to manufacture/run & repair? Maybe not?
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Old 12 Apr 2023, 19:16 (Ref:4151258)   #1453
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So it turns out the original plan was to use unbranded Coyotes in BOTH cars until Ford refused.

I can understand where they were coming from, but to now cry about different engine characteristics is a bit rich. Not to mention the cost savings from running the one engine.

Shame on you Ford. Reap what you sow
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Old 12 Apr 2023, 21:12 (Ref:4151270)   #1454
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Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
Shame on you Ford. Reap what you sow


Dane's propaganda proving effective on some it seems!

It's perfectly reasonable that Ford Performance would prefer their engine not to be used in the competitor vehicle. The idea that the true brand of the "unbranded" engine wouldn't get out to fans is dubious, for example it is well known that the BTCC category engine is a Vauxhall Opel engine.

If the goal was to have a one-make Mustang Cup series, then just make a one-make Mustang Cup series!

Or make the category engine a neutral engine like the Nissan VK56 used in LMP3 racing, they seem to have a nice enough sound. That way you have a Nissan engine which is neutral to both Ford and Chevrolet. Just contact Todd Kelly to whip up 50 of 'em using the OEM bore and stroke. Hartley Engines in New Zealand are also experienced in VK engines.

...If the Nissan idea seems objectionable however, then you might appreciate the problem with using Ford engines in Chevrolets...

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 12 Apr 2023 at 21:33.
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Old 13 Apr 2023, 00:42 (Ref:4151278)   #1455
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Compromised should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
So...

Every pole would have been won by a Ford engine.

Every podium would have been populated by Ford engines.

Every race win...you guessed it, Ford engine.

What about the championship winner? Also Ford engine.

Even when SVG wipes the floor with the floundering Ford's, Ford still win!


What's the issue again?

For once Supercars where going down a cost effective, practical route that would have ended a lot of parity debate. Good on them for trying
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Old 13 Apr 2023, 02:05 (Ref:4151280)   #1456
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I refuse to watch any motorsport if I know it uses a category engine, why supercars didn't have the chev engines sleeved down to 5.4 litres (or thereabouts) is a mystery to me.

The 2023 season is virtually null and void already and will always have an asterisk next to it.
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Old 13 Apr 2023, 02:55 (Ref:4151282)   #1457
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Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
So...

Every pole would have been won by a Ford engine.

Every podium would have been populated by Ford engines.

Every race win...you guessed it, Ford engine.

What about the championship winner? Also Ford engine.

Even when SVG wipes the floor with the floundering Ford's, Ford still win!


What's the issue again?

For once Supercars where going down a cost effective, practical route that would have ended a lot of parity debate. Good on them for trying
Yeah, we get most of that in Kiwi Land with our Kent Formula Ford Championships! Bloody good racing all the same.

Aren't the Supercar drivers chasing a drivers championship? They're not really interested in being top Ford or top Chev are they?
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Old 13 Apr 2023, 04:35 (Ref:4151284)   #1458
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The 2023 season is virtually null and void already and will always have an asterisk next to it.
Please explain this comment?
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Old 13 Apr 2023, 07:35 (Ref:4151296)   #1459
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Please explain this comment?
Season has started without parity being achieved and it is a 2 class category, a camaro class and a mustang class.
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Old 13 Apr 2023, 07:53 (Ref:4151297)   #1460
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The series is still hoping to return to NZ:

https://www.motorsport.com/v8superca...5305/10455305/
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Old 13 Apr 2023, 11:53 (Ref:4151311)   #1461
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Season has started without parity being achieved and it is a 2 class category, a camaro class and a mustang class.
Rubbish!
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Old 13 Apr 2023, 13:16 (Ref:4151321)   #1462
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Season has started without parity being achieved and it is a 2 class category, a camaro class and a mustang class.
When isnt there a parity conversation at the start of a new series. The racing has been great so far IMHO, but then again who am i
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Old 13 Apr 2023, 14:30 (Ref:4151333)   #1463
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MARC car boss notes poor ventilation of the Gen 3 and the detuned nature of the 5.4L Herrod Coyote in the ATCC:

Quote:
They [ATCC] are running the restrictor to 600hp, whereas we [MARC cars] are running the unrestricted [5.4L Herrod V8] to 630hp, which is the same engine without the restrictor.

We haven't had that problem because we are ventilated under the bonnet.
https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/marc-bos...-engine-fires/

Unlike the Gen 3 ATCC car, the MARC car has large bonnet vents to evacuate heat, as well as placing the oil catch can in the boot of the vehicle...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
I can understand where they were coming from, but to now cry about different engine characteristics is a bit rich.
Or a bit rich to complain about Ford Performance using an engine that has then been detuned by 30hp outside of their wishes?

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 13 Apr 2023 at 14:53.
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Old 13 Apr 2023, 22:15 (Ref:4151371)   #1464
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Rubbish!
***Asterisk***
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Old 13 Apr 2023, 22:17 (Ref:4151372)   #1465
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https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/marc-bos...-engine-fires/
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Old 13 Apr 2023, 22:28 (Ref:4151373)   #1466
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I refuse to watch any motorsport if I know it uses a category engine,
Gotta hate those Formula Vee's, Ford's, Trans-Am, F2, etc.

Forget they provide good racing....just switch off.

I do agree that it wouldn't seem right in a category such as Supercars.
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Old 14 Apr 2023, 04:48 (Ref:4151384)   #1467
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Gotta hate those Formula Vee's, Ford's, Trans-Am, F2, etc.

Forget they provide good racing....just switch off.

I do agree that it wouldn't seem right in a category such as Supercars.
Yep, boring as batshit.
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Old 14 Apr 2023, 05:30 (Ref:4151385)   #1468
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Yep, boring as batshit.
So, different engines create exciting racing, but they're different - different being the antithesis of parity.

Two different engines, no matter how well "equalised" will still be different, ergo, someone will have an advantage.

Asking Supercars for cheap(er), parity and different engines is, I feel, a bridge too far
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Old 14 Apr 2023, 09:29 (Ref:4151400)   #1469
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Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
So, different engines create exciting racing, but they're different - different being the antithesis of parity.

Two different engines, no matter how well "equalised" will still be different, ergo, someone will have an advantage.

Asking Supercars for cheap(er), parity and different engines is, I feel, a bridge too far
It's of no interest to me, if you like it then go for it but I prefer classes like GT3 and production (B12hr and B6hr).
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Old 14 Apr 2023, 12:07 (Ref:4151417)   #1470
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Gussets approved to strengthen weak points in the chassis:
https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/supercar...strengthening/

Macaulay Jones called for the front splitters to be redesigned for improved strength:
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/04/14...ars-front-bar/

I imagine that will be approved too, along with strengthening other weak points like the steering rack mounts and suspension mounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
So, different engines create exciting racing, but they're different - different being the antithesis of parity.

Two different engines, no matter how well "equalised" will still be different, ergo, someone will have an advantage.

Asking Supercars for cheap(er), parity and different engines is, I feel, a bridge too far
I would have been quite happy with a Mustang Cup similar to the Carrera Cup myself! No more silly things like parity adjustments.

It seems a Mustang Cup as the Australian Touring Car Championship is something the Holden faithful were less enthusiastic about...

On the other hand, the NZV8 faction of the NZV8 v V8SuperTourer split managed to achieve parity between a variety of vehicles and engines including the TRD 5L in a Toyota Camry shaped racer. It wasn't necessary to adopt a category engine like the V8SuperTourer class.

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It's of no interest to me, if you like it then go for it but I prefer classes like GT3 and production (B12hr and B6hr).
Yes and no I guess. One-make F2 & F3 produce good racing. Ford could proudly promote the Mustang Cup as the only manufacturer involved, which seems more logical than having Chevrolet Camaros running around winning which aren't sold in Australia nor sponsoring teams or the series.

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 14 Apr 2023 at 12:12.
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Old 15 Apr 2023, 00:32 (Ref:4151539)   #1471
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GreenMachine should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridGreenMachine should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Gussets approved to strengthen weak points in the chassis:
https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/supercar...strengthening/

Macaulay Jones called for the front splitters to be redesigned for improved strength:
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/04/14...ars-front-bar/

I imagine that will be approved too, along with strengthening other weak points like the steering rack mounts and suspension mounts.
Seriously?!! Sounds like Amateur Hour in the drawing office ... did the people doing the design think they were display cars, not racing cars?
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Old 15 Apr 2023, 05:02 (Ref:4151572)   #1472
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Seriously?!! Sounds like Amateur Hour in the drawing office ... did the people doing the design think they were display cars, not racing cars?
Amateur hour at supercars.
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Old 15 Apr 2023, 23:22 (Ref:4151685)   #1473
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Amateur hour at supercars.
One worries that the designer of many components -- 888 Race Engineering -- are more interested in the profits from selling parts, than designing for low cost and maximum durability (even if their tender submissions claimed "great value"). 888 commissioning a new, larger fabrication and machine shop in advance of Gen 3 was particularly suspicious. It probably would have been wiser to involve the likes of Ross Stone or Larry Perkins as consultants in the car design...

Ross Stone noting the 888 fabricated truss live axle from the Project Blueprint era as "unnecessary and a huge waste of money" -- yet so many teams were fooled by it and handed their hard earned over to 888, not to mention the never-ending 888 front-end upgrade treadmill that some teams fell for , while other -- wiser? -- teams like BJR and GRM found more cost-effective ways to do it. Yet now BJR have been sucked into needing to buy overpriced front splitters from 888, until wiser heads prevail and teams receive moulds to make their own (which will surely happen?).

By all means 888 could knock themselves out designing overengineered front uprights that take 100 hours in the CNC machine to make, but to drag other teams into that insanity...?!

Then for this Gen 3 era that is supposed to move away from these Super Touring era overengineering traps over to simple, cheap cars like MARC cars to then fail in many areas, it's just madness isn't it?

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 15 Apr 2023 at 23:32.
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Old 16 Apr 2023, 16:10 (Ref:4151802)   #1474
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Then for this Gen 3 era that is supposed to move away from these Super Touring era overengineering traps over to simple, cheap cars like MARC cars to then fail in many areas, it's just madness isn't it?
The new MARC car is $600k, btw.
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Old 16 Apr 2023, 17:48 (Ref:4151835)   #1475
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With the technical philosophy of the cars not much changed compared to the past I am surprised by the problems and higher costs than expected.
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