MS - Can he race wheel to wheel?

[Rossi # 46]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

But Michael Schumacher is the source of all evil, just look at his chin for Christ's sake!

Getting a bit of track here, but just whilst we are on the subject of MS's physical appearence. I was watching an interview of him today, and gee does that man look young. If I didnt know better I would think he still had another 10 years in him yet.

[ASCII Man]

Now you're just trying to depress me...
Job well done I must say...

[luke]

I would have to say I was suprised at Michael's out right pace. You could tell he was not happy with his car as he made the move, was that straight after Nick came out of the pits, then into turn 3?
Anyway I was suprised when he cut Nick, off then he he kept waving at the marshals to push him, out for ages, as Nick had got out instantly, as it was in a dangerous situation.
And after the marshals risked, Michael in the end retired it.

Going back to can Michael race through the pack?
Well certainly he can, he's not the record breaking seven times F1 world champ for nothing, but when he's in them situations, you tend to see him trip over cars, Suzuka '03, and Shanghi '04 perfect examples.
And now he's not had a great start to the season and was no where on pace wise, this could be the turning point!?

[ASCII Man]

God, I hope so...

[ralf fan]

but then Barrichello had the pace...so Schumi definately mustve had it.... I think he just got stuck behind Sato and Aus is not the easiest place to pass a car with reasonable pace like a Bar....

[jj2728]

some days it's there, some days it's not....
of course he can weave his way through a pack, it's just that he's not had many opportunities of late to do so..

[Gt_R]

I think today's situation was a rather unfortunate thing..but can't really believe it being sufficient to question Michael, or Nick.

Firstly, the difference is that Michael just came out of the pit and is regaining his pace...Nick already had the momentum and hence is able to launch an attack.

Nick's attempt is justifiable, because he must grab that chance or else once Michael regains his speed, it won't be possible.

So is it Michael's fault? I'd say it is 60%. Firstly, Michael is perfectly entitled to keep choose his defensive line. It is a little late, but looking at the playback, it is a response to an attack from Nick. Normal.

Furthermore, Michael did NOT drive Nick onto the grass. He squeezed, but kept just wide enough space for a car. Isn't it what racing is..to give just enough room? Nick over-reacted a little, swerved onto the grass avoiding nothing, and applied brake...the car just carried on it's movement... simply no grip to stop... and tagged Michael. It's not an attempt by either to take the other out.

It seems like some fans are particularly jumpy over every Michael move...live with it. I admit he isn't the smoothest overtaking guys, with occasional hiccups like in Shanghai last year, and abit overly aggressive in a few instances, but otherwise this guy can race if the situation calls for it. Be it overtaking , or being overtaken. Even when he's lapped.

And what problem do people have with Marshals pushing him out? Point One...it IS allowed. Point Two, Michael is not aggressive towards the marshals. Point Three, (luke take note) the marshals need to get to the car sooner or later.

The purpose of pushing him out is not to let him continue the race. it is simply because pushing him out is the SAFEST option available. Or would people rather have a tractor parked at that corner? MS is facing the track...Nick isnt, and is buried far deeper in the kitty.

Just as what the commentators predicted, there would be people finding issues with it in the coming weeks.

[Knowlesy]

I think Michael was entirely at fault. He has never been the greatest in a wheel to wheel battle and it showed again sadly. I'm not sure what runs through his mind, but he needs to sort it out. Such a great and worthy champion shouldn't race so patchily.

I think Coulthards move on Webber was a lot worse though.

[M Coupe]

Originally Posted by Gt_R

I think today's situation was a rather unfortunate thing..but can't really believe it being sufficient to question Michael, or Nick.

Firstly, the difference is that Michael just came out of the pit and is regaining his pace...Nick already had the momentum and hence is able to launch an attack.

Nick's attempt is justifiable, because he must grab that chance or else once Michael regains his speed, it won't be possible.

So is it Michael's fault? I'd say it is 60%. Firstly, Michael is perfectly entitled to keep choose his defensive line. It is a little late, but looking at the playback, it is a response to an attack from Nick. Normal.

Furthermore, Michael did NOT drive Nick onto the grass. He squeezed, but kept just wide enough space for a car. Isn't it what racing is..to give just enough room? Nick over-reacted a little, swerved onto the grass avoiding nothing, and applied brake...the car just carried on it's movement... simply no grip to stop... and tagged Michael. It's not an attempt by either to take the other out.

It seems like some fans are particularly jumpy over every Michael move...live with it. I admit he isn't the smoothest overtaking guys, with occasional hiccups like in Shanghai last year, and abit overly aggressive in a few instances, but otherwise this guy can race if the situation calls for it. Be it overtaking , or being overtaken. Even when he's lapped.

1st point on Nick over-reacting. If someone swerves towards you but leaves you just enough room you have no idea they will do so when you start your avoidance, I think to say Nick over-reacted is unfair, he had to move to the right before Michel stopped his swerve.

[Pingguest]

Well, the incident was a mistake of Heidfeld. He forgot that braking on grass is impossible. And why should Michael go wide for Heidfeld? Heidfeld just couldn't overtake him.

[Knowlesy]

Well it was either brake on the grass or brake on Michaels wheels and cartwheel into the gravel trap.....

[Gt_R]

MCoupe.

Rethink the part of marshals.. either way, they WILL be exposed. In the event you suggest, in fact they will be exposed for longer than by pushing the car out.

And the marshals don't follow the Ferrari onto the race track.. All they need is to get the move forward.

And Michael thinking he is above everyone elsee? HUH? I'm pretty sure that the rule applies to everyone, and at the judgement of the marshals to do what they deem fit.

Over-reacting i agree is a strong word, and unfair on Nick. But he could have sticked to his lane or edge abit nearer to the edge...there is just sufficient room that there's little need to make such a sudden swerve. I believe Michael's defence caught Nick out abit...but it doesnt make Michael 100% wrong. Drivers like JPM also often leave just enough room for the other guy..but nobody is complaining.

[Gt_R]

knowlesy, like i've said, at that point and before Nick swerve onto the grass, Michael left him enough room to brake on the track (instead of on the grass). Watch the video again ?

[Knowlesy]

But Michael tends to make sudden movements. He could have defended his position a bit more smoothly. I think if you make sudden jinks there is always the risk that the other guy will panic and it has caught Michael out in the biggest possible way.

[Knowlesy]

Gt_R...I was exaggerating earlier, but you get my point!

[M Coupe]

I've moved the Marshalls comments to the other thread but I stand by my comments.

The difference I see with some of the moves Michael makes is that he makes what look like big aggresive swerves, he doesn't just squeeze a driver, sure in some instances he leaves a gap (although Alonso at Silverstone would disagree) but the driver he is racing with suddenly sees a car drive towrds him quickly will always take avoiding action and because of the agression from Michael it will be an over-reaction with hindsight.

I'm a fan of DC and was glad he kept Webber behind him but I did think his move after he hit the Minardi to do so was probably OTT.

[Gt_R]

Indeed, knowlesy and MCoupe, you see..fundamentally we agree on one thing..nobody said Michael is faultless, which is why i placed more fault on Michael than Nick, simply because of his "late" defence. Michael sometimes does take the defence a bit to the limit...but that is what he is all about, very close to the limit, but still within. As in today.

Nick may be caught off guard, but that said, there is ENOUGH track for him, and that on hindsight he may have reacted abit too much. That's why he is only in minority blame.

It's pretty fair isn't it, It's definitely Michael abit more than Nick, but 100% it is not.

[Knowlesy]

Agreed. You could also say that Nick has never battled with Michael properly before and just wasn't ready for what Michael did.

Blimey Gt_R......we're agreeing on something! What's going on?

[Heebeegeetee]

I like Michael. I noticed when watching the build up on TV how nowadays he seems to be the man amongst the boys.

He's done some fantastic racing in the past, and I think its ludicrous to question any of his ability. His record speaks for itself.

Having said all that, he's also made some duff moves, and todays was just that. A reall crass naff move, which has nothing to do with racing. Its almost a 'toys out the pram I can't win so neither shall you'. Its not the first time he's done it, and he lets himself down every time.

I'm adamant that it was not a racing incident. It was an unavoidable collision.

I think Heidfeld shouldn't have swerved like he did, but personally I don't rate Heidfeld one bit and his reaction comes a s no surprise.

I think he should have just held his line. MS's back wheel would have clobbered NH's front, with the same result except that NH would at least have looked more innocent than he did, even though I think he was in fact totally innocent. He played no part in the cause of the collision, IMO.

To be honest, both World Champs were crap today. But I expect at least one of them to shake it off and rerturn to his normal blistering form.

[Sodemo]

The incident was 100% Michaels fault, Heidfeld did no wrong.

Michael squeezed him to the inside to which Nick moved inside, Michael jinked right, which is when Nick went onto the grass, then Michael took the complete racing line?!?!
When Nick was 3/4 up the inside? Nuts... :nuts:

[Gt_R]

As i've earlier said...nevermind..forget it.

[Alex Hodgkinson]

I think that the accident was michaels fault, no doubt about it, but the way in which it happened was representitive of a great F1 driver's attitute.
When I say a great driver I mean the F1 cream such as Senna, Prost, and so on.

Their belief is that they are the best on the track, and they will do whatever it takes to (not necesseraly win, but) maximise the potential of any situation they are in.

It's hard to explain, but quotes which would match this kind of driver are:


"I'm coming past, whatever you try, so you might as well get of my way..."

or

"This is my peice of road, my position. You're not coming past, and that's that, whatever you do. Take yourself out of the race trying, if you must..."


The accident between Heidfelt and Schumacher was a result of the above approach...

Totally Schuey's fault...

[Sodemo]

On the same subject, maybe Michael will be more cautious the next time he races Nick?

[Gt_R]

Headlines tomorrow... Michael Schumacher charged for dangerous driving and penalised 10 spots for every race after verdicts of his critics.

Hmm..unlikely to happen. Don't think MS nor Nick would remember much of it tomorrow.

[RWC]

Yep he will i think,allthough that depends on how whimpy he thinks nick is.If he smells blood he'll just keep doing it,if he senses a don't-care attitude as with montoya he'll be way more carefull.

I see by the news reports that michael thinks it was a racing incident.
"i just didn't see him"

...what ,just like you didn't see montoya at the nurburgring when you went way,way offline in the corner so as to push him out ??