Quality Of The Drivers

[mbathshah]

Did a quick check and the quality of the drivers is really poor. Only 3 Champions in single seater racing the rest of no real pedigree. That's why Bernie is probably not that worried. See below:

Piquet Nelson Jnr (Brazil)
2005 - GP2 Championship - 8th
2004 - British F3 Championship - 1st
Power Will (Australia)
2005 - World Formula Series by Renault - 3rd
2004 - British F3 Championship -9th
Duran Salvador (Mexico)
2005 - British F3 National Class - 1st
2004 - Formula Renault Italy - 8th
Halliday Matt (New Zealand)
2005 - Nothing
2004 - New Zealand Porsche GT3 Championship - 2nd
Yoong Alex (Malaysia)
2005 - A1GP
2004 - Nothing
Simpson Stephen (South Africa)
2005 - Formula Renault UK - 10th
2004 - Formula Renault UK - 10th
Verstappen Jos (Netherlands)
2005 - A1GP
2004 - Nothing
Fukuda Ryo (Japan)
2005 - World Series by Renault - 20th
2004 - WS Nissan - 15th
Sean Mcintosh (Canada)
2005 - Formula Renault UK - 2nd
2004 - Formula Renault UK - 6th
Scheider Timo (Germany)
2005 - A1 GP
2004 - DTM
Lauda Mathias (Austria)
2005 - GP2 Championship - 21st
2004 - F3000 - 9th
Tengyi Jiang (China)
2005 - A1 GP
2004 - Testing Formula Renault
Khan Adam (Pakistan)
2005 - British F3 National Class - 11th
2004 - F3 Germany - 23rd
Charouz Jan (Czech Republic)
2005 - Son Of Franchise Holder
2004 - Son Of Franchise Holder
Vasiliev Alex (Russia)
2005 - FIA GT
2004 - FIA GT
Kerr Robbie
2005 - A1GP
2004 - World Formula Series by Renault -15th
Speed Scott (USA)
2005 - GP2 Championship - 3rd
2004 - World Formula Series by Renault - 1st
Beschir Khalil (Lebanon)
2005 - DO NOT KNOW
2004 - DO NOT KNOW
Toccacelo Enrico (Italy)
2005 - World Formula Series by Renault - 9th
2004 - F3000 - 2nd
Parente Alvaro (Portugal)
2005 - British F3 Championship - 1st
2004 - British F3 Championship - 7th
Jani Neel (Switzerland)
2005 - GP2 Championship - 6th
2004 - World Formula Series by Renault - 6th
Devaney Michael (Ireland)
2005 - German F3 Championship - 2nd
2004 - Formula BMW ADAC - 4th
Mikola Ananada (Indonesia)
2005 - Asian F3
2004 - Asian F3
Premat Alexandre (France)
2005 - GP2 Championship - 4th
2004 - Euro Series F3 Championship - 2nd
Chandok Karun (India)
2005 - World Series by Renault
2004 - British F3 Championship -14th

[Go-Pakistan]

excellent research my friend! that must have taken you a while......

it will be intersting to see what happens to these drivers in the summer season when no A1 races are on, will some find GP2 or F1 test/race seats?

will they come back for A1 the following season? or be replaced by new up and coming drivers?

[Ian Sowman]

Hmm, within your three you don't seem to be counting Robbie Kerr (Formula First 1997, Formula Renault Star Cup 1998, British Formula 3 Scholarship 2001, British Formula 3 2002). Probably some more too if you go back to Pre 2004.

[EvilPumpkin]

Hang on, what do you mean the quality is poor? I stood there and watched those guys drive last weekend, and believe me, none of them is substandard. They're all perfectly capable of doing laps at Brands Hatch at speeds in excess of 150mph in some places - and they're all very good in the wet as well.

Previous pedigree is as much a function of budget as of talent. I know a lot of drivers who are extremely talented but will never shine as much as some of their slightly more mediocre fellow competitors. Simply because they can't afford the same mechanics/parts/tuning etc. You can have all the talent in the world, but if you're in an unreliable or just plain SLOW car, you aren't going to win.

Obviously someone with a good track record is preferable, but why shouldn't some unknowns get a big break for a change. I think it's about time that young drivers with talent are given a break in a class that should truly allow them to show what they can do without worrying about how much money the guy in the next garage has.

[mbathshah]

That's why Nelson Piquet absolutely crushed the opposition because he is one of the few drivers in A1GP with genuine talent and the results to prove it.

[EvilPumpkin]

In the first race he did very well. That doesn't mean that none of the other drivers have genuine talent.

There are more races and more circuits and I suspect a lot of surprises to come.

[nev]

Surely you would want people of simular experience so that the racing was tighter. Also has anyone done any research on the drivers in F1 -- Kimi Formula renault - Button 2nd in F3 etc !!

[SALEEN S7R]

There are lots of drivers in A1 GP with signifcant talent. To follow up on your list mbathshah here are a few things that you missed, and a few of the drivers.

Timo Schedier:

2005: Proximus 24 hours of Spa winner and currently 3rd overall in FIA GT GT1 drivers championship.

Tomas Enge:

2005: Factory driver for Aston Martin racing both at Le Mans and the ALMS. Also racing for Panther Racing in the IRL.

2004: Factory driver for Prodrive both at Le Mans and in the ALMS. Also did Int F3000 finishing 4th overall.

Pedro Lamy:

2005: FIA GT championship with Labre Competition currently 8th overall in GT1. Also factory Aston Martin driver in ALMS and FIA GT.

2004: LMES GT1 drivers champion with Labre Competition.

Drivers of no real pedigree? Hmm, okay then.

[mbathshah]

Kimi came into Formula renault from karts and was winning lots of races in his first season! That's why he became hot property. Similarly Button in his first season came 3rd in the British F3 Championship and won the Macau race and that's why he was hot property. If you know about racing then somebody who moves into a new category and kicks butt immediately is real talent and that is why F1 team owners snatched Button and Kimi. Without trying to be mean Parente won the British F3 Championship in his third season which is why it is unlikely that he will get into F1.

[Ian Sowman]

Does it really matter what the quality of the drivers is anyway? Obviously we don't want to see people who are dangerously slow - some of the drivers towards the back of the grid probably have room for improvement in this regard. Most of the drivers are reasonably competent, and some much better than that. Much of the excitement in any racing series is down to watching how different drivers develop - for example, the spectacularly quick and racy, but fallible, individual gradually getting more consistency and improving his results as the season progresses. That is one element of the overall entertainment package. It is probably reasonable to say that if A1GP was contested by the 25 best drivers in the world it would potentially be much less entertaining.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by mbathshah

That's why Nelson Piquet absolutely crushed the opposition because he is one of the few drivers in A1GP with genuine talent and the results to prove it.

There is no doubt he has genuine talent but I would suggest his absolute dominance was more related to a better than average car setup. Even his talent was unlikely to manufacture 1 sec a lap alone. This being the rate at which he disappeared at each race.

[ausracefan]

Your right, the quality does seem to be a bit on the shallow side, but i dont see it as really poor, just struggling little. Watch for more experience drivers to come in during other motorsport's "off period".
Just quickly. Matt Halliday is driving at Sandown and Bathurst for Orrcon

[mbathshah]

Look I am not saying these drivers are useless but given the hype of A1GP the quality doesn't match the hype. In addition with Sheikh Maktoum wanting it to rival F1 I just don't see it. The cars are slightly quicker than F3 and a lot slower than F1. Remember Mansell did a 1.09 here 20 years ago! I for one cannot understand why they did not just buy GP2 Cars (Which are not far from the back end of the F1 Grid in terms of performance) rather than try and reinvent the wheel with the A1GP Car. Look at some of the drivers at the back end of the field and you will find some of them 6 seconds off the pace! You call that quality motor racing in cars that are identical?

[Ian Sowman]

I don't necessarily think that ultimate speed has an awful lot to do with whether it could rival F1. Sure, that is one aspect of the series but by no means the only one - you need to look at other things like competitiveness of the racing, the access to the drivers at the circuits, the overall spectacle. You can't conclude on any of those yet. The guys that are slow at the back will get quicker with experience, and as I said: one of the fun things about motor racing is watching different drivers develop. 25 near-perfect racing drivers would not an entertaining series make...

[cos]

Originally Posted by mbathshah

Look I am not saying these drivers are useless but given the hype of A1GP the quality doesn't match the hype. In addition with Sheikh Maktoum wanting it to rival F1 I just don't see it. The cars are slightly quicker than F3 and a lot slower than F1. Remember Mansell did a 1.09 here 20 years ago! I for one cannot understand why they did not just buy GP2 Cars (Which are not far from the back end of the F1 Grid in terms of performance) rather than try and reinvent the wheel with the A1GP Car. Look at some of the drivers at the back end of the field and you will find some of them 6 seconds off the pace! You call that quality motor racing in cars that are identical?

The Sheikh has said many times he doesn't want to rival F1; that's why this is a winter racing series. Secondly the series is about entertainment, so it doesn't matter primarily about speed - the cars are designed to look flashy and are quite basic in comparison to F1.
As for the quality of the drivers, once the main racing series pack up for the winter I suspect we'll get some high-profile drivers (Heidfeld, Glock, Karthikeyan, Herta, Tracy, Kanaan, Wheldon etc.)

[mbathshah]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

Hmm, within your three you don't seem to be counting Robbie Kerr (Formula First 1997, Formula Renault Star Cup 1998, British Formula 3 Scholarship 2001, British Formula 3 2002). Probably some more too if you go back to Pre 2004.

I only looked at last season that's why he wasn't counted. But I take your point that he won British Formula 3. I quite rate the lad

[jump]

Originally Posted by cos

As for the quality of the drivers, once the main racing series pack up for the winter I suspect we'll get some high-profile drivers (Heidfeld, Glock, Karthikeyan, Herta, Tracy, Kanaan, Wheldon etc.)

Yea thats what I think, and in the coming years I'm sure we will see even more.

[Go-Pakistan]

This was only the first race, as the teams learn to develop their cars and the less experienced drivers (and number 2 drivers) get more track time, i think it will develop into the race series it promised to be. There are some car reliability issues aswell, weak batteries, France, GB, seized wheelnuts, Pakistan.

Nelson Piquet Jr. is not even in the top 6 in GP2. but has excelled in A1GP so far.

Formula 1 doesn't necessarily have the absolute best drivers, (don’t get me wrong, they’re all super talented that’s why they’ve earned their seats) just the best funded, it's all about money.

Do you know any other sport where you can pay to compete against the world's elite? Anyone with reasonable experience and granted a super-license by Bernie can have a seat in a Minardi or Jordan for around £5 million apparently. Even red bull have a 42 yr old bloke called Nissany who pays for a part time test role.

People complain about drivers that "only started racing in their teens", but this shows that they developed an interest in motor racing themselves rather than being put into a kart at the age of 4 just so that their dads could live their dreams through their children. Senna started aged 4, Schumacher's dad owns one of the biggest kart tracks in Germany, so he (and Ralf) always had a head start.

Many club racers in the UK and I’m sure around the world are in their 20s, 30s, 40 and even 50s. Motorsport is expensive and many people can only afford to do it later in life.

Look at Formula BMW, most of the drivers are aged around 17-18….where does a teenager get £150,000 a year to race in a national series? From Daddy of course.

Anyway, back to the subject…A1 looks like a great series, just needs to get a few races underway and we’ll see how it is at the end of the season. Well done to the organizers to take on such a huge project.

[mbathshah]

Motor racing is like any other sport. The younger you start the more likely it is (if you have talent) the better you will be. Do you know at what age Tiger Woods started Golf? 3 or 4 I Believe. Experience is the key and that only comes through time. That's why Senna was so good precisely because he had the talent and did start at an early age. Like they say you can't teach an old dog new tricks. All motorsport has raised it's game. Senna and Prost raised the game in F1 and that is why there hasn't been a world champion since then who didn't start racing at a very young age.

As far as money is concerned you are completely wrong. If you are good enough you will be found - see Alonso who came from a poor family and is now World Champion. Same for Schumacher whose father did not own the track but worked there. It was simply the fact that Willi Weber spotted the talent and backed schumacher all the way to F1

As far as buying seats in F1 I agree that on pure merit none of the drivers deserve to be driving Jordan's or Minardi's.

[Ian Sowman]

Originally Posted by mbathshah

As far as money is concerned you are completely wrong. If you are good enough you will be found - see Alonso who came from a poor family and is now World Champion. Same for Schumacher whose father did not own the track but worked there. It was simply the fact that Willi Weber spotted the talent and backed schumacher all the way to F1

No, you are wrong to a not insignificant degree - if you are good enough you might be found, and backed, if you are lucky. There is no guarantee that you will make it. Motorsport, more than most other sport, has high barriers to entry. Football, for example, doesn't, and you can be spotted playing on a Sunday morning on a parks pitch. There is no direct equivalent in motorsport.

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by mbathshah

As far as money is concerned you are completely wrong. If you are good enough you will be found - see Alonso who came from a poor family and is now World Champion. Same for Schumacher whose father did not own the track but worked there. It was simply the fact that Willi Weber spotted the talent and backed schumacher all the way to F1

It's not about how much money your family has - it's about available sponsorship. For every Schumacher and Alonso, there are a 100 Jonathan Fildes's - extremely talented drivers who are capable of so much more, but never manage to raise the money to get there.

Who's Jonathan Fildes? Exactly my point. (for info, he's an extremely talented Irish driver who's just never got the breaks he deserved - his first year in the Clio championship, he won outright. He's just raced inthe Dunlop Supercar Championship this year and won 15 races out of 15).

Your location, your business capabilities and the support you receive from those around you make all the difference.

It's very idealistic and admirable to think that driving talent is all you need to succeed in motorsport, but I'm afraid it's simply not the case. Don't take my word for it - go to the racers forum and ask the drivers.

[Hubble]

mbathshah, I think you are missing out some vital information - many of these teams only bought their franchises in the weeks prior to the event (Austria and Italy were only announced during the week), so testing time was limited. The drivers will take time to come to grips with the cars, and learn new circuits. Also if you check the history of the selected drivers a bit further back you will find some of the drivers do have a good background. Just because they do not have championships under their belt does not make them a poor driver.

Next time you hand your homework in, try and pad it out with a bit more substance.

5/10 - must try harder

[mbathshah]

Originally Posted by Hubble

mbathshah, I think you are missing out some vital information - many of these teams only bought their franchises in the weeks prior to the event (Austria and Italy were only announced during the week), so testing time was limited. The drivers will take time to come to grips with the cars, and learn new circuits. Also if you check the history of the selected drivers a bit further back you will find some of the drivers do have a good background. Just because they do not have championships under their belt does not make them a poor driver.

Next time you hand your homework in, try and pad it out with a bit more substance.

5/10 - must try harder

Didn't quite understand the homework bit but anybody trundling around in F3 at the age of 25 in my opinion will never make it to the pinnacle of motorsport and I guess for that reason A1GP is a godsend for drivers of that calibre. Some of the drivers are very good - Piquet, Speed, Premat but some are also very poor just like in any other racing championship. You are always going to get the extremmes like Kimi and Karthekeyan in any sport. Same in football just look at the difference in the transfer fees and you will see what I mean.

[nev]

Originally Posted by mbathshah

Kimi came into Formula renault from karts and was winning lots of races in his first season! That's why he became hot property. Similarly Button in his first season came 3rd in the British F3 Championship and won the Macau race and that's why he was hot property. If you know about racing then somebody who moves into a new category and kicks butt immediately is real talent and that is why F1 team owners snatched Button and Kimi. Without trying to be mean Parente won the British F3 Championship in his third season which is why it is unlikely that he will get into F1.

oh you mean like Robbie Kerr who is the only person i have ever heard of that won the scholarship F3 in his first year then went on to win the Championship class in his first year of that in what was clearly not the best car on the track

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by mbathshah

Didn't quite understand the homework bit but anybody trundling around in F3 at the age of 25 in my opinion will never make it to the pinnacle of motorsport and I guess for that reason A1GP is a godsend for drivers of that calibre.

Well I guess that depends on what you refer to as the pinnacle of motorsport. It doesn't all revolve around F1.

For some people, F3 is the pinnacle of motorsport. For others it will be A1GP. Others may consider Sportscars the place to be if you're the best. Others wouldn't even consider circuit racing to be the pinnacle of motorsport and would only be interested in Rally drivers.

Everyone has their idea of how to gauge the most outstanding achievements. Obviously F1 is considered to be the pinnacle by those who don't really follow motorsport because that's usually all they see on mainstream TV or on the news. That doesn't make it true though.

As for calibre, I'm not sure what you mean by that one. Obviously age and fitness levels count for a lot, but if age was a serious barrier, then Button would have been winning championships for the last 3 years and Schumacher would be hobbling around pitlane on a zimmer frame. Experience counts for a lot when you're out on a race circuit.

I have to ask, have you been following motorsport for long and what was your main centre of interest(s) before looking at A1GP?