[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[Deleted]

“We have introduced some rules that will enforce cars to enter under an automotive brand. When we speak about the brand, we don’t require a manufacturer to commit itself, but in the philosophy perhaps of Alpine and Aurus in LMP2. “We believe today that by encouraging this we will also bring some more support to private teams and to expand the field of cars racing (in the top class)."

-- “As to how people get together to achieve this, that is left to their own discretion of course. In the philosophy of what Aurus and Alpine are doing in LMP2, clearly we can see here the opportunities that it brings for a brand, and for a team.”

Nothing more than sticker rebadging it is then, got it.

And same to continue in LMP2 still

Q) About Aurus and Apine, is this, at least in part an encouragement to those brands, and maybe to others too, to look towards hypercar rather than LMP2 in the future?
“The original intention is not especially for that but that could be a positive after-effect as well actually yes.”

[TF110]

Seems they'll stay with the same type of tires they have on offer today, as in "no development". Which is fine by me in lmp2 because the class is basically spec as it is. And the rules won't change for the foreseeable future. That means it's going to be all-Oreca in a season or two. So let it be over and done with and move on to the next ruleset for the class. I've lost interest in the class over the past couple of seasons with all the 'Alpine' and 'Aurus' Oreca's, the rule stagnation, the lack of development, the standardizing or the class... Hopefully hypercar has good racing, because I'm not looking forward to a bop debate.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

Seems they'll stay with the same type of tires they have on offer today, as in "no development". Which is fine by me in lmp2 because the class is basically spec as it is. And the rules won't change for the foreseeable future. That means it's going to be all-Oreca in a season or two. So let it be over and done with and move on to the next ruleset for the class. I've lost interest in the class over the past couple of seasons with all the 'Alpine' and 'Aurus' Oreca's, the rule stagnation, the lack of development, the standardizing or the class... Hopefully hypercar has good racing, because I'm not looking forward to a bop debate.

Speaking of badging, I've realized that the only reason Onroak hasn't jumped to the cash-in--rebadging-wagon like Oreca has, is because their chassis already has an automotive branding title attached to it. They can't really put, I don't know, Venturi's or Bugatti's stickers to their spec cars as that would violate Ligier's name. The "Nissan DPi" is different because they can pretend it to be different in foreign market place with OEM engine, but that's about it. Meanwhile Oreca can rebadge every one of their cars to whoever has cash, as ACO doesn't care... I guess Dallara could have done the same if their car had been better.

Anyway, while P2 is indeed very sterile and dull I think the lack of... you know, anything... has actually saved it from it becoming a BoP class like every other category, which I'm at least little bit thankful for. Lack of imagination shouldn't be the only way for preservation, and certainly not this way, but it is what it is.

[deggis]

Full regs have been released:

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...30_-_clean.pdf

Some stuff not previously publicized, a summary from reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/wec/comment...ercar/fagq9d4/

[Deleted]

Why is it called "LMP Regulations" if the category was supposed to be called LMH?

Single bodywork...

[GT6]

Just read that the new hypercar regs will allow rotary engines, now that will be a welcome return especially for those of us that were at le mans when the mazda's kept us awake (in a nice way) with there screeming in the distance i used to be able to tell where they were even in my tent in the campsite.

[TF110]

Is the minimum weight still an absurd 1100kg? Haven't had the chance to read through it yet.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

Is the minimum weight still an absurd 1100kg? Haven't had the chance to read through it yet.

1040kg

But once bop gets going I'm sure we'll see sub 1000 on some cars

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

1040kg

But once bop gets going I'm sure we'll see sub 1000 on some cars

Looks like Aston Martin went on a diet One thing I've noticed, there's much more freedom on underbody aerodynamics, which is awesome to see because these cars can make loads of downforce and be low drag thanks to that. They actually might be pretty fast with 750hp. The diffuser area is now open as well.

Edit- noticed that the dimensions are different. Cars are now 1150mm tall, that's lower than originally planned isn't it? And 5000mm long, is that more?

[chernaudi]

Isn't 1040kg base weight for Super GT?

[TF110]

I think so. It's either 1040 or 1030. But reading more of the just released regs, I don't see the weight being 1040kg, it still says 1100kg in Article 4, 4.1

Minimum weight
The weight of the car, without fuel and without driver, must not be less than 1100 Kg at all times during the competition.
The checking of the weight of any part that may have been replaced during the event is at the discretion of the Scrutineers.

That's for the updates regs released today (December 11)

[chernaudi]

Either a typo or DSC/SC365 have the wrong source, as both their articles do quote or make references to the 1040kg weight.

It's also worth noting that underbody aero (front diffuser, floor and rear diffuser) are much freer in design under the new regs than on current LMP1 cars, where only the front diffuser can be significantly different under the tech regs (floor and rear diffuser is mostly spec outside of the strake in each venturi on the rear diffuser).

[TF110]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Either a typo or DSC/SC365 have the wrong source, as both their articles do quote or make references to the 1040kg weight.

It's also worth noting that underbody aero (front diffuser, floor and rear diffuser) are much freer in design under the new regs than on current LMP1 cars, where only the front diffuser can be significantly different under the tech regs (floor and rear diffuser is mostly spec outside of the strake in each venturi on the rear diffuser).

I went to the pdf file link from SC365's website and it says 1100kg. I don't know what article says 1040kg. I'll have to search more.

[chernaudi]

I can't find anything, but I know that 1040kg was mentioned somewhere. Still not sure if that's a typo or someone messed up one way or another.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Isn't 1040kg base weight for Super GT?

How nice it would be to see the SuperGT in Le Mans!!!, how good would be the return of the 1000 km of Suzuka with a GT500 vs. Hypercar battle as it happened in the old JGTC where the Porsche 962, Ferrari F40 or McLaren F1 GTR raced against Japanese cars. Although the 1000 km of Suzuka were not part of the JGTC but its return would be good now for this battle.

[Deleted]

4th of Dec (SC365) dated document says 1100kg but 5th of Dec (Deggis linked) revision 1040kg

Not that I think 60kg really matters

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

4th of Dec (SC365) dated document says 1100kg but 5th of Dec (Deggis linked) revision 1040kg

Not that I think 60kg really matters

I'll check it out, thanks.

edit- seems there's quite some differences between the two revisions. And also, it seems the one Deggis linked to is dated 05.12.2018, so that's a year old

I think 60kg is a pretty significant difference, actually. At the weight these cars are at, 10kg is worth a couple tenths of a second from what Toyota's technical director said. So that's potentially over a second per lap difference just from a weight loss/gain.

[chernaudi]

My woman crush might be 60kgs if she was carrying like 25-30 pounds of shopping or a very large Thanksgiving or Christmas turkey. 60kg is like, what, 130lbs in customary measurement. So I'd say that's pretty significant.

I know that it depends on other BOP parameters, but adding 60kgs to car would likely significantly impact lap times, especially in the dry, and with no power increases to off set it.

[Deleted]

Indeed you are correct on the date TF110, the confusion has been real... also explains the class name

But anyhow I still don't see how any of this matters. In a bop class there is no such thing as minimum weight, despite what pieces of paper may tell us... as GTE has showed us. Yes they may theoretically add or decrease ballast off from baseline 1100kg, but it may end up that the Peugeot-Rebellion-Oreca goes as low as 950kg while Toyota carries 1200kg to compensate for unexpected hybrid boost or whatever. "Minimum weight" is not "minimum weight" in balance of performance terminology

GTE "minimum weight" and such
https://tentenths.com/forum/showpost...postcount=1320

[TF110]

As well these regulations are not final either. As we have seen in this very thread with multiple drafts. I find it interesting that the dimensions say "maximum" for vehicle height at 1150mm. Does that mean they can make a car lower? Usually it says "minimum" like with the weight, the quote says "must not be less than 1100kg".

[chernaudi]

ACO have also used that phrase for vehicle height dating back to LMP900/675 for prototypes.

[TF110]

Reading a little bit more of the regs and it seems that bespoke engines and hybrids are very limited compared to those that are from a 'road car' (or one that will be made from the hypercar). Even when you get down to the gearbox casing, bespoke gearbox casings can be made only from Aluminum or Magnesium alloys while that restriction doesn't apply to a 'road car'. The advantages even go so far as to allow VVT on the 'road car' engines, no limit to 7 forward gears and no limit on "instantaneous gear shifts" including engaging more than one gear at a time. So "original transmissions" are allowed to basically have seamless shifts, double clutches, etc.

[Deleted]

Same old lobbyist speeches from McLaren we've heard for 10 years
https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...0-only-option/

But now that it's a bop championship they'll probably get their wish through, eventually, as the priority of the organizing parties just seems to be to get as many people onboard as possible

[carbsmith]

They won't show anyways, but can they fix the ridiculous weight limit now?

[Deleted]

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...d-eligibility/

“We don’t want to be restrictive. A brand is this production volume must be registered in blah blah blah…’ If we write all of this, then we will kill many projects. We don’t want to kill projects.”

You know Vincent in the past we used to call this 'blah blah blah' bit regulations. These regulations governed the sport.

“We want diversity. We don’t want all cars looking the same with the same engines and fighting on details. It’s still a big challenge but the fine-tuning will be done by the BoP. If you look today, it is probably the only competition where you have such different vehicles racing against each other. DTM, Formula E and F1 are all the same cars."

"Fighting on details" right... and comparing quasi spec cars of DTM and FE to F1 is a joke. Plus on that note, why did he not put LMP2 and LMP3 to that list of shame, if diversity is all what matters? Or the grand new world of spec tires in every category? Is spec only shameful when it's in another series?