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Old 9 May 2013, 05:14 (Ref:3244648)   #1551
Spyderman
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by hondafan37 View Post
Of course I understand the different between pure racing car and a road legal super/track car. But in my point of view, I do not care if the performance is lower if the car look more beautiful.
I was talking about 911 GT1 98 not 911 EVO, Both of cars are very beautiful but they are different cars.
You do not forget that this discussion start because some people here think that the new Porsche LMP1 look horrible like the Toyota and Audi.
I'm not sure if you are referring to my posts, but just to be clear: My issue is not with the looks of the Toyota or the Audi per say (although neither can be called beautiful in my opinion), but with the fins and the holes over/side of wheels. It's those two aberrations that make the designs really quite hard to stomach, not the fact that the LMP1's don’t look like road cars. The 956/962 did not look like a road car, but it was beautiful to my eyes. The same can be said for the 917. Many Ferrari prototypes were stunning. (512, 312,333P)
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Old 9 May 2013, 07:35 (Ref:3244685)   #1552
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I agree. Without the goofy fins and fender holes the lmps looked great.
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Old 9 May 2013, 11:46 (Ref:3244789)   #1553
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It's worth noting that when prototypes looked like extreme sports cars, rather than... I don't know what, the manufacturers didn't feel the need to plaster their own branding all over the cars like these days. Now people would see these cars, including the new Porsche as LMPs, back then it would be identifyable first and formost as an extreme Porsche model. That allowed title sponsorship without sacrificing manufacturer's brand identity.
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Old 9 May 2013, 11:59 (Ref:3244796)   #1554
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Originally Posted by Pandamasque View Post
That allowed title sponsorship without sacrificing manufacturer's brand identity.
I get your point but not this conclusion. Look at GrC era cars: lots of title sponsors, no road car looks.

I think now it is more of a case nobody offering them (Toyota/Audi, but not Pug since it had Total) large enough bag of money, so of course they'll then fill the fin ad space with their own stickers.

Last edited by deggis; 9 May 2013 at 12:05.
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Old 9 May 2013, 12:34 (Ref:3244812)   #1555
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Originally Posted by deggis View Post
I get your point but not this conclusion. Look at GrC era cars: lots of title sponsors, no road car looks.
I disagree. I see the 962 as a direct continuation of the 917, 908, 906, 904, 550 lineage.

Of course I'm not going to claim that this is the only or main reason why we don't have the kind of title sponsorship that produced all those fantastic liveries in the past (with a notable exception of Gulf!). But my point stands: for the most cars aren't identifiable with car brands they represent.

Actually, just a couple of days ago I read an article on Audi R18 on Autoblog.com. It's always more interesting to read the comments, as the public there is generally not very knowledgeable about racing. One of the commenters posted something like "The car looks so un-Audi". That kinda struck me, as such thought never even crossed my mind.

Last edited by Pandamasque; 9 May 2013 at 12:42.
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Old 9 May 2013, 12:49 (Ref:3244819)   #1556
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Originally Posted by Pandamasque View Post

Actually, just a couple of days ago I read an article on Audi R18 on Autoblog.com. It's always more interesting to read the comments, as the public there is generally not very knowledgeable about racing. One of the commenters posted something like "The car looks so un-Audi". That kinda struck me, as such thought never even crossed my mind.
We get lost in that, don't we. No one would ever say that about an Audi F1 car, because they don't expect it to look like one. But prototypes have covered wheels, headlamps, a roof, a passenger seat (ahem). As I explained earlier, they were originally called "prototypes" as they were the prototypes of models that manufacturers intended to sell after racing at Le Mans.

Now the only thing that's "prototype" is some of the technology, rather than the cars themselves, but there needs to be a link.

The 962 had indicators, a stock block engine, and a Porsche badge stuck on the front with immense pride. It became a Porsche.

Is it possible to do that with a current LMP1? The ACO need to ask themselves that. They need to remember why Le Mans is celebrating 90 years this year...why it's survived a World War, a couple of economic depressions and oil crises.

Two word answer to that. Road. Relevance.
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Old 9 May 2013, 13:01 (Ref:3244825)   #1557
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+1 to all of the above ^
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Old 9 May 2013, 13:03 (Ref:3244828)   #1558
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gustavobamba should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgustavobamba should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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+1 to all of the above ^
+1 to all of the above + future sustainability
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Old 9 May 2013, 13:14 (Ref:3244832)   #1559
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Originally Posted by Pandamasque View Post
I disagree. I see the 962 as a direct continuation of the 917, 908, 906, 904, 550 lineage.
I said GrC, or does that now equal to 962... Don't look at 956/962 only, altough I don't see how that differs from any other GrC car except for it's legendary status. Especially towards the end of 1990s the basic form was getting quite similar across all the cars (front, the shape of the cockpit). Remove the liveries from the cars and they start to look quite similar especially if viewed from the front and zero brand indentity in the shapes alone.

Quote:
Actually, just a couple of days ago I read an article on Audi R18 on Autoblog.com. It's always more interesting to read the comments, as the public there is generally not very knowledgeable about racing. One of the commenters posted something like "The car looks so un-Audi". That kinda struck me, as such thought never even crossed my mind.
I bet he didn't even know it was a race car let alone realized it races at LM. Always surprises how clueless people are on these general car news sites and on Youtube comments and how unseriously they view the whole racing aspect.

And if brand identity means blatant Nascar-like stuff like this, then no thanks


Last edited by deggis; 9 May 2013 at 13:21.
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Old 9 May 2013, 13:19 (Ref:3244833)   #1560
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The only mono-sit car allowed was the WR. But two sits remain the ACO and sportcars philosophy.
They used to have to carry a spare tyre too , but cant remember exactly when that stopped ?
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Old 9 May 2013, 13:43 (Ref:3244838)   #1561
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Yes to most of the comments mentioned but I think we do have normal GT's in the races so if the prototypes take things to the next level in looks as well as technology then that is all right by me
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Old 9 May 2013, 13:44 (Ref:3244839)   #1562
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
As late as 1966 Le Mans organizers required cars to have a horn, turn signals, 4 inches of ground clearance, luggage space, and a spare.
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Old 9 May 2013, 13:52 (Ref:3244840)   #1563
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They knew what they were doing in those days, no one questioned them about BOP in those days
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Old 9 May 2013, 13:54 (Ref:3244843)   #1564
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They knew what they were doing in those days, no one questioned them about BOP in those days
BoP back then: suddenly banning displacements over n litres.
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Old 9 May 2013, 16:40 (Ref:3244899)   #1565
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Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice View Post
We get lost in that, don't we. No one would ever say that about an Audi F1 car, because they don't expect it to look like one. But prototypes have covered wheels, headlamps, a roof, a passenger seat (ahem). As I explained earlier, they were originally called "prototypes" as they were the prototypes of models that manufacturers intended to sell after racing at Le Mans.

Now the only thing that's "prototype" is some of the technology, rather than the cars themselves, but there needs to be a link.

The 962 had indicators, a stock block engine, and a Porsche badge stuck on the front with immense pride. It became a Porsche.

Is it possible to do that with a current LMP1? The ACO need to ask themselves that. They need to remember why Le Mans is celebrating 90 years this year...why it's survived a World War, a couple of economic depressions and oil crises.

Two word answer to that. Road. Relevance.
+1 to all of the above too^
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Old 9 May 2013, 16:52 (Ref:3244903)   #1566
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But my feeling is Red Bull . Red Bull sponsor a lot in the VAG group , of which Porsche now is a part , along with the rumor of Mark Webber .
Are they going to ban Red Bull and Monster now because kids are abusing the stuff?

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Old 9 May 2013, 16:54 (Ref:3244904)   #1567
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I thought red bull was already banned in france
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Old 9 May 2013, 16:55 (Ref:3244906)   #1568
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supermario21 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsupermario21 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Don't forget even the GT1 cars of 1998 needed luggage space. I remember Toyota exploited this by getting the ACO to approve their empty petrol tank as a "trunk" lol.
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Old 9 May 2013, 16:58 (Ref:3244908)   #1569
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Don't forget even the GT1 cars of 1998 needed luggage space. I remember Toyota exploited this by getting the ACO to approve their empty petrol tank as a "trunk" lol.


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Old 9 May 2013, 17:20 (Ref:3244913)   #1570
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I think it was something like:
"Ok, this is our luggage space, and we have put out petrol tank in it. Nothing in the rules says you have to be able to put suitcases in it."
But anyhow, the ACO was not amused.
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Old 9 May 2013, 17:25 (Ref:3244916)   #1571
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But watching it, I was a lot more than just amused...... My all-time favourite Le Mans car. Gives me the chance to wheel my picture out again as well.....
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Old 9 May 2013, 17:34 (Ref:3244918)   #1572
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Now that is a very nice picture! Can you PM it to me in the biggest possible size please?
I would be much obliged!
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Old 9 May 2013, 17:37 (Ref:3244921)   #1573
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I remember seeing those cars, they were incredible until they broke down
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Old 9 May 2013, 18:33 (Ref:3244934)   #1574
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Now that is a very nice picture! Can you PM it to me in the biggest possible size please?
I would be much obliged!
That's as big as I have it at the moment Vincent - I'll have to find the original and scan it in again!
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Old 9 May 2013, 19:39 (Ref:3244957)   #1575
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Ah ok. I understood you were a little bit too busy lately, so only do it when you have time. Don't make time for me.
Thx in advance,
Vincent
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