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Old 18 Oct 2005, 00:41 (Ref:1436625)   #76
NO1SPECIAL
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No Heebeegeetee, you've got it absolutely right - and you've described it to a tee.

My response was a sarcastic remark aimed at the seeming 10/10ths consensus that Webber was to blame. I apologise for the confusion.

Last edited by NO1SPECIAL; 18 Oct 2005 at 00:43. Reason: didn't link it
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 01:10 (Ref:1436635)   #77
lookleft
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lookleft should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
1.Raikonnen - Car / driver combination superb on their day. Team let Kimi down with failures.
2.Alonso - Excellent use of equipment. Maximised on others failures.
3.Trulli - Revelation of the year, the first half of the season was outstanding. May have been a "cork" in many races but used the car to deliver podiums.
4.Coulthard - Not too sure here. A few good results may have clouded opinions but he doid a very sound job. Saved career.
5.Klien - Almost rated above Coulthard - long with Trulli he proved he belongs in F1. Handled the pressure of Tonio very well.
6.Webber - Often qualified out of position resulting in lower finish than start. Few too many errors but strong finish to the year.
7.Montoya - Excellent when on track. Proved McLaren can "change" a driver by so openly assisting Kimi. Marked down for missing races due to bad luck or stupidity.
8.Monteiro - Very strong year in a pig of a car.
9.Heidfeld - Last minute selection, never looked to be going that well but gathered up results.
10.Albers - Another rookie who did well.

Notable exceptions:
Button - again lost focus due to contact issues. 100 race, all except for 17 in good cars, very little to show for it. Gloss starting to wear off.
Sato -Appalling.
Schumacher - Bad car, trouble maintaining focus. Too good to be qualifying 12th.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 01:14 (Ref:1436637)   #78
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Heebeegeetee should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by NO1SPECIAL
No Heebeegeetee, you've got it absolutely right - and you've described it to a tee.

My response was a sarcastic remark aimed at the seeming 10/10ths consensus that Webber was to blame. I apologise for the confusion.
Ah-ha! Thank gawd for that, after I'd posted it I thought "don't tell me we're going to go back to that daft old argument".

Yes, I remember now, some had thought Webber was to blame. I wonder if Fisi had missed Webber and had hit the barrier, would the barrier been to blame?

(I have an image of Fisi spanking the barrier. What's Italian for "you naughty, naughty barrier, you!"

Sorry, cheap shot.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 01:31 (Ref:1436643)   #79
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Heebeegeetee should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'm a bit dissapointed to see how many are putting Schumacher down. He finished third in the championship, he couldn't have done better than that. By rights, he should be fifth, behind both Renault and McLaren drivers because they were all in vastly superior cars. Sure he profited at Indy, but if you take those 10 points away you have to give them to either FA or KR. This then would place MS behind JPM and GF. No-one surely is suggesting GF is better than MS? JPM lost out because of his injury and that was his own fault. He accepts an awful lot of money and a priveliged lifestyle, and in exchange he has an obligation to be available at all times throughout the season.

Certainly, in a very long career, Schumi has never let his team down like that. And we have no evidence at all that any other driver wouild have finished so high in this years Ferrari.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 01:43 (Ref:1436648)   #80
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Frank_White should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
My top ten

1. Alonso (peerless drive - made me a fan) I can't remmber ANY driver making less mistakes and driving in such a mature and intelligent way.

2. TGF (history books will place MS in the top 3 of 2005 yet we who were watching knew that the ferrari was probably the 6th fastest in the feild. He made mistakes sure, but they were more about him driving on the ragged edge to get more out of the car. the chinese gp was not an indictment on him in my opinion, the ferrari was worse than the jordans.)

3. Kimi (very fast and totally fearless. However, I get the feeling that he can't maintain the same level of focus as Alonso and MS. whats the point of setting the fastest lap on the final lap? It was as if he gave up in china. even the hype in Japan, Alonso drove a superior race in regards to car skill and overtaking manouvers. the Mclaren was faster than the renault and the renaults true pace was reflected in Fisi's driving.)

4. Coulthard (when he left mclaren he got his balls back. with them he's very very good.) with multi lap qualifying i rate him third in the feild)

5. Montoya (suprised me with his speed vis-a-vis kimi. I think that he's just as fast as kimi and on occassion faster. with some luck/no bad luck in 2006 i think he'll beat kimi. remember that 2005 was his first year at mclaren yet he collected 3 wins.

6. Nick H (solid driver who confirmed what many of us believed all along)

7. Jenson (I think he lacks integrity but without him BAR's year would have been a complete and utter disaster)

8. Trulli (showed great speed for qualifying and when he he was on the sharp end of the grid but faded when things became more scrappy. In trulli's case "when the going gets tough Trulli gets going DOWN" lol. but i must confess that if you give trulli the fastest car or one of the fastest he is caple of winning a championship.

9. Klein (he trounced Luzzi who will never be a great talent)

10. Ralf (he salvaged his season, but remains too erratic. he probably makes up for his inconsistancies with his cerebrial development skills.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 02:36 (Ref:1436657)   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heebeegeetee
Ah-ha! Thank gawd for that, after I'd posted it I thought "don't tell me we're going to go back to that daft old argument".
Yep, I could say more but I think the majority of readers would rather this was dropped and....what was that....*listens carefully*...yes, I think I hear the distinctive tread of a mod's hobnailed boot - and there's way too many of those angry red letters appearing beside each of my posts.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 05:32 (Ref:1436692)   #82
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SetikX should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
No1Special;

Noone came here with the mentality to abuse webber, noone came here to rubbish him! Alot of ten tenths didnt include him in the top ten? Do you want to know why? Its a little secret which you may like to hear? Its because you can only have 10 drivers in the top 10, and to those individuals webber wasnt in that elite group.

You decided, like many other fans of Mighty Mark to defend him to the hilt. You started things IMO out of nowhere.

If you want to make pot shots at the likes of fisi:
"I have an image of Fisi spanking the barrier. What's Italian for "you naughty, naughty barrier, you!"

Then please, be cheerful and happy enough to let people have their oppinions.
_____



That said, and dont think it was apersonal attack, it was merely a plee from a tired 10/10ths fan who is tired of the continuous debates about MW.

-----

1. Alonso
2. Kimi

What can I say? Honestly Alonso was superb - to the T. His control was marvelous. Equally as much however, was Kimis heart. His was so betrotten by bad luck and poor workmanship that to any man on that grid I wonder where they would drag their energy.

There is a huge gap here, until we come to;

DC -
Heres saluting DC. Some said at the start of the season (and some still say) he should of dealt with Klein better, but IMHO DC's influence over Klien has been awesome. I have no evidence to support it, but from the role he has played in this young team, I salute him.

MS - Im going to gloss over this one, as I dont know why. His results - are - well amazing for the amount of crap he has had. I dont know if it was luck, or what, but whatever it was it was man made.

JPM - season long JPM was acceptable, name a specific race or 2, he was insupparsiable (sorry spelling is bad atm. Means perfect).

Thats 5, theres a huge jump then to;

Ralf / Trulli- Ralf ahead on points, Ralf ahead on early headstart of the season.

7 now, thats all I can think of who stand out.

Sato - disappointing, but ill be sad to see the boy of 04 leave us. He had us all in high hopes in 04 along side Button.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 06:30 (Ref:1436698)   #83
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[QUOTE=SetikX]No1Special;

If you want to make pot shots at the likes of fisi:
"I have an image of Fisi spanking the barrier. What's Italian for "you naughty, naughty barrier, you!"

Then please, be cheerful and happy enough to let people have their oppinions.
_____

I think if you check you'll find I never did make such a statement. So perhaps the sarcasm elsewhere in your post isn't entirely warranted.

As for the rest, I suppose I did start things out of nowhere - I pointed out to a few people that IMO Mark was at least somewhere near his teammate. I should have known better, in that you are right. However, I did not defend Mark "to the hilt": I never claimed he was anything like perfect and I don't suppose I ever will. Anyway, I'm more than content to let the matter drop.

One last thing - Just like you I get tired of endless Webber debate, believe it or not. Also, I think that those who do defend him to the hilt - in other words those who cannot ever admit he could make a mistake - annoy me and do more harm than good when defending him. But one thing that should not be allowed to happen is for fans of Webber to become cowed by the constant and often unreasonable battering that Webber receives in here. No one need be embarrassed into not supporting him by those who claim to know better, or have a more venerable reputation, or even those who merely post 200 times a day. Unreasonable charges needn't be mutely accepted simply because most of us here are tired about hearing about Webber - and fear annoying more reasonable posters with yet another defence.

Please don't take this as a personal attack.

And besides, the season's over, we can look forward to a Webber-debate-free summer!
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 06:39 (Ref:1436700)   #84
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Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
One thing the Webber critics tend to overlook is that this has been his first season running in a "frontline" team and he went into the season with less F1 experience than his teammate.

On that basis, he's learned a lot and his performances in Japan and China certainly bode well for 2006 - where he could well establish himself as a VERY credible performer.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 06:45 (Ref:1436704)   #85
NO1SPECIAL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kicking-back
One thing the Webber critics tend to overlook is that this has been his first season running in a "frontline" team and he went into the season with less F1 experience than his teammate.

On that basis, he's learned a lot and his performances in Japan and China certainly bode well for 2006 - where he could well establish himself as a VERY credible performer.
Well that was certainly some unexpected support.

And I'm glad to see you put quote marks around frontline - but sad that they were necessary.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 07:52 (Ref:1436733)   #86
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Originally Posted by knowlesy
The season is over, the last of the 19 races has drawn to a close and we head into the winter of discontent....

yeh good one mate

Last edited by Adam43; 18 Oct 2005 at 17:03. Reason: No need to quote all that for that reply! http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/faq.php?faq=posting_faq#faq_posting_netiquette
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 08:40 (Ref:1436778)   #87
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Originally Posted by N I Tram
So you're 'staying out of the Webber debate' by choosing a completely illogical position for him, while leaving Nick out of the top 10? Strewth, as I believe you say.
Let each poster have his/her opinion and not rubbish them. Webber had a solid, unspectacular season and steadily improved. So if 'Mark Webber' felt like ranking him so high, then so what??
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 09:07 (Ref:1436796)   #88
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x_acto should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
My Top Ten:

1º Alonso
2º Raikkonen
3º Montoya
4º Button
5º Monteiro
6º R. Schumacher
7º M. Schumacher
8º Heidfeld
9º Trulli
10º Fisichella
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 09:27 (Ref:1436810)   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N I Tram
So you're 'staying out of the Webber debate' by choosing a completely illogical position for him, while leaving Nick out of the top 10? Strewth, as I believe you say.

I wil instead choose a top 8 and ignore the Williams guys (both would probably be in my top 10 otherwise)
Well that seems a bit petty, my good chum, as I believe you say.

Ah, just having a laugh - I don't think any Aussie has said strewth outside the confines of a soapie or a period drama for about 50 years.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 09:32 (Ref:1436815)   #90
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After reading this thread may I offer a new name for the Williams driver

Marmite Webber (you either love him or hate him)
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 09:39 (Ref:1436822)   #91
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1200Datto27 has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Vegemite Webber, thank you very much.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 10:15 (Ref:1436851)   #92
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BootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Nice to see that the Button-bashing has crept into this thread. Can I quickly point out that he spent 4 seasons teamed with drivers who have won races (Ralf, Trulli, Fisichella and JV), all of whom were much more experienced than Jenson at the time, and none of whom ever came close to winning a race in those seasons? He's never really had race-winning equipment to date. I accept that 2005 hasn't been spectacular, but it isn't his fault taht the car was off the pace so early in the season, or that the car's performance fades as the race goes on. My opinion of him (not as strong as Fernando, Michael or Kimi, a little behind JPM but perhaps ahead of everyone else) is unchanged.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 12:01 (Ref:1436911)   #93
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My top ten:

1- Alonso. Blisteringly quick, totally commited and brought the car home for a good points haul when the victory wasn't on the cards.

2- Kimi. As with Alonso his speed was incredible, with a more reliable car he could have taken the title, I'm sure his time will come.

3- DC. I've never really been a DC fan and generally considered him a waste of a top seat. This year he's been a breath of fresh air, strong performances on track and talking sense off it (instead of McLaren PR mumbo jumbo).

4- TGF. He seemed to be able to get more out of the Ferrari than Rubens and finished 3rd in the championship. Not what he's used to but though.

5- Heidfeld. Showed good speed and from the first race was prepared to go wheel to wheel with people. Looked good against his much fancied team mate and again his input seems to have been much appreciated by the engineers, he should be a valuable asset to BMW.

6- Trulli. Started the season superbly and up until the introduction of the latest car held the upper hand over Ralf. People complained about the 'Trulli train' in races but he had every right to be in that position after his qualifying performances.

7- Klien. I expected absolutley nothing from Klien. To be honest I didn't think he'd see the season out once Liuzzi had been in the car. He's probably the most improved driver from last season to this and deserves to keep his place for next season.

8- JPM. Spent the early part of the season adjusting to the car then fell of his tennis racket. Not promising. However in the latter part of the season he was flying, with no chance in the drivers championship he could just go for it and as ever was quite prepared to go for overtakes.

9- Fisi. Soundly beaten by Alonso but I really don't think he had a bad year, suffered from the "curse of the second Renault" in terms of reliability but put in some good drives too.

10- Button. Not impressed with the contract thing but on track he did pretty well, comprehensively destroyed his team mate and hustled the car along quite nicely.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 16:58 (Ref:1437135)   #94
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Can I just ask people politely to shut the hell up about Mark Webber.

We've heard enough about him, and no doubt will even more next season now JV is on his way!

Although do feel free to pop him in your top ten.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 17:14 (Ref:1437146)   #95
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Frankly the key to the top ten should not revolve around where Webber is (or isn't). Can we view a top ten without his position being pivotal?

There is just no need for so much offense, sarcasm and bickering. Especially when it destroys other's discussion.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 19:40 (Ref:1437253)   #96
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1) Fernando Alonso
2) Kimi Raikkonen
3) Juan Pablo Montoya
4) Rubens Barrichello
5) David Coulthard
6) Jarno Trulli
7) Christian Klien
8) Micheal Schumacher
9) Jarno Trulli
10) Jenson Button
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 19:51 (Ref:1437269)   #97
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=1)Alonso, Kimi
3) M.Schumacher, Heidfeld
=5) JPM, Trulli, DC
=8) Klein, Monteiro, Albers

I'll leave it at that for now, but it is more provisional than anything else. On top of that, even whenever I come up with a more finalised version, it should not be considered some concrete list. It is impossibel to just make a magical ranking that covers everything/is even remotely fair.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 23:03 (Ref:1437415)   #98
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It'd be Vegimite for Webber, surely... [Ed - as, er, 1200datto thingy said]

Vegimite Webber and Marmite Button. Possibly.

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Old 18 Oct 2005, 23:07 (Ref:1437420)   #99
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Not vege? As in VEGEtable?

I don't know the product, but just seems vegi would be odd.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 23:34 (Ref:1437440)   #100
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Not vege? As in VEGEtable?

I don't know the product, but just seems vegi would be odd.
Yep, you're right - Vegemite (I eat the stuff most days but even I had to go and check).
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