Prescott this weekend

[blackx]

Originally Posted by jetskidia

Main reason for most of the red flags were due to the over zealous marshalls at Ettores being over keen on keeping the track clean

Thats because if we dont go clear it up the drivers whinge..

Just like all those that moaned about the gravel on the inside of Pardon hairpin that wasnt there

[Pike]

Cant have it both ways, either stay on the black stuff so nothing gets chucked on the track or if drivers do chuck anything on the track because of cutting the corner then accept the flags that follow it.

[rescue dude]

Originally Posted by jetskidia

Main reason for most of the red flags were due to the over zealous marshalls at Ettores being over keen on keeping the track clean


Apart from all the stoppages and flags it was still a good event

http://media.putfile.com/Prescott-Hillclimb--Sept-2007

What car were you competing in?

[Paul Ranson]

Just like all those that moaned about the gravel on the inside of Pardon hairpin that wasnt there

There was actually gravel on the inside of Orchard on Saturday, apart from anything else there is a crowd safety issue with that. Perhaps the occasional bucket of water onto the dirt at Ettores would have been a solution there?

Paul

[welshgal_2006]

As was mentioned on Sunday, unfortunately, due to the weather conditions we have been experiencing it caused different track conditions on the weekend. The bad weather had caused a lot of the gravel to go on the grass, and when drivers were using the grass as part of their driving line, the gravel was being kicked up therefore making the sweeping nesecary.
The comments from the drivers on Saturday about the gravel had to be acted upon and therefore it was nesecary for all the red flags to be put out.
As for the water - brilliant idea however I don't think when coming through orchard, many drivers would appreciate slicks going through wet ground.
I think that a good team effort from both drivers, officials and marshalls allowed the meeting to run as smoothly as possible and finish at a resonable time.

[b1ackcr0w]

Originally Posted by jonners

Well - we got so teed off with all the delays (running in one of the later classes) that we didn't bother with our last run and went home.

I know the club will point the finger at the drivers - quite rightly - but one of the things getting under everyone's skin in our class was the fact that we were stuck up in the top paddock without a clue what was going on. The paddock geography at Prescott does seem to favour single seaters and invited clubs.

Heavily toned down rant over...

I personally tried to resolve this problem. Mainly by taking the approach of actually walking up there and talking to you guys, and planning the running order to take account of the problems of double drives etc to keep the meeting running. Two things happened:

1. I had a miserable day because nobody wanted to change, everybody kept on doing what they've always done, despite me running around like a whirling dervish trying to keep things on track.

2. After a day of putting up with 1. A family member of a driver I was trying to help gave me the most humiliating public & abusive dressing down it's ever been my misfortune to experience.

Since then I've had little/no meaningful communication from the BOC. I remain willing to give it a go. I belive with effort, great gains can be made. But without clear backing from Comittee, Drivers and crew helping me or whoever else voluteers to try to improve matters, I suspect the status quo will remain.

[rescue dude]

Originally Posted by Paul Ranson

There was actually gravel on the inside of Orchard on Saturday, apart from anything else there is a crowd safety issue with that. Perhaps the occasional bucket of water onto the dirt at Ettores would have been a solution there?

Paul

Do you mean coming in to Ettores after Bridge Paul? Because that was my cross to bare over the weekend.

Drivers were cutting the corner and fetching gravel up, the problem being it was slightly out of our view behind the bank, but i slightly changed the way i flagged on sunday and it seemed to work.

As Welshgal said earlier putting water on the corners wouldn't work because the first driver to cut it( and there were a LOT!!) would bring mud onto the track.

[Paul Ranson]

When we had a look on Saturday before lunch there was some gravel on the inside of the exit of Orchard which I think got mentioned to the CoC.

Paul

[rescue dude]

Originally Posted by Paul Ranson

When we had a look on Saturday before lunch there was some gravel on the inside of the exit of Orchard which I think got mentioned to the CoC.

Paul

When it was mentioned to us we looked and found nothing.

Mind you we did sweep a bit before we restarted so it was probably sorted then.

[Paul Ranson]

Fair enough. There's a photo on 2t4t of us looking over the fence at Orchard, this was when the gravel was commented on....

I think the main trouble was a patch of gravel inside the apex of Ettores. There are some photos on top12runoff that show it. Perhaps an excavator would have improved matters.... Anyway it's not usually such a big a problem there.

Paul

[Gizmo]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

I was told that there were groans from the crowd every time the Red Flag came out!

Also what is it at Prescott that sees umpteen personnel attend each incident then stand around like one of Lewis's?

I can quite believe that Steve, I can assure you that the groans from the speccies were echoed by us Clerks....I think others here have given you the full picture why the flags occurred....someone else called the marshals at Ettores overzealous, well the Chief marshal and his deputy made a point of observing the spate of reds there and had to agree that every one was justified....I remember one of our marshals being put under threat of legal action some years ago by a former driver( male ) for not having, allegedly, swept up 4, yes, FOUR bits of gravel on the entrance into esses....would you be a marshal? would you make the decision not to sweep when it is clear that you need to do so?

Anyway to move on, what`s the problem with having enough people around to deal with an incident?
I know Pike has given a succinct account of how an incident is dealt with, aided ably by Black X.
We have a policy of never turning away a marshal at Prescott, we consider any venue to do so would be foolish in the extreme...hence sometimes we get a lot of marshals...other venues also have lots of marshals...recently I was at a National meeting at Gurston...there were at least nine marshals on the Karousel, fantastic to see.
So when a post has an incident they have more than enough man/girl power to deal with it, those not directly involved will be dealing with other things such as removing debris, sweeping gravel/grass/dirt, dressing oil...and some will be being talked through the incident as part of on post training...it`s how we get experienced marshals to be just that...experienced.

So Steve, if you want to learn a bit more about our side of things, I invite you to come marshal for at least a day at Prescott, not be on post or nearby taking pics but actually marshal, you may get a good story out of it and...you may understand how and why things happen trackside


And by the way...you never did buy me a pint the night before Colerne....I know you have the money...especially after that fire alarm!

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Gizmo

I can quite believe that Steve, I can assure you that the groans from the speccies were echoed by us Clerks....I think others here have given you the full picture why the flags occurred....someone else called the marshals at Ettores overzealous, well the Chief marshal and his deputy made a point of observing the spate of reds there and had to agree that every one was justified....I remember one of our marshals being put under threat of legal action some years ago by a former driver( male ) for not having, allegedly, swept up 4, yes, FOUR bits of gravel on the entrance into esses....would you be a marshal? would you make the decision not to sweep when it is clear that you need to do so?

Anyway to move on, what`s the problem with having enough people around to deal with an incident?
I know Pike has given a succinct account of how an incident is dealt with, aided ably by Black X.
We have a policy of never turning away a marshal at Prescott, we consider any venue to do so would be foolish in the extreme...hence sometimes we get a lot of marshals...other venues also have lots of marshals...recently I was at a National meeting at Gurston...there were at least nine marshals on the Karousel, fantastic to see.
So when a post has an incident they have more than enough man/girl power to deal with it, those not directly involved will be dealing with other things such as removing debris, sweeping gravel/grass/dirt, dressing oil...and some will be being talked through the incident as part of on post training...it`s how we get experienced marshals to be just that...experienced.

So Steve, if you want to learn a bit more about our side of things, I invite you to come marshal for at least a day at Prescott, not be on post or nearby taking pics but actually marshal, you may get a good story out of it and...you may understand how and why things happen trackside


And by the way...you never did buy me a pint the night before Colerne....I know you have the money...especially after that fire alarm!

I do marshal on a regular basis with my own club - usually on rallies - however I have marshalled at a couple of hillclimbs and I do appreciate the wonderful job the guys and gals on the banks do.

As for the pint, if you are at Aintree on Saturday I'll get one in!

[Stuart Hill]

Originally Posted by Gizmo

I remember one of our marshals being put under threat of legal action some years ago by a former driver( male ) for not having, allegedly, swept up 4, yes, FOUR bits of gravel on the entrance into esses....would you be a marshal? would you make the decision not to sweep when it is clear that you need to do so?

I have not entered this thread until now for the simple reason that I was NOT at Prescott for the currently discussed meeting, but WAS the potential target of the legal action from the former driver (male).

My instructions for that day were..........

"We've changed Esses and put gravel on the approach (driver's left) behind the rumble strips (dragon's teeth) instead of cones/flappy markers etc to hope the drivers will stay on the "black-stuff. Would you please observe the driver's lines and report back any corner-cutting (obviously noticed by gravel now on-line) and clean in-between cars where possible".

This I duly did so, even to the point of actually rotating marshals, myself included, to be behind the armco on the approach to "Esses" (driver's left) so that any gravel could possibly be swept between cars. This would have been much easier during practise if the cars came in programme order but that's another story.

so, wherever possible, the track was swept, without red-flags, between competing cars to the very best ability and safety of the marshal involved but, if nothing else, the racing-line was always spotless and as such, any incidents (IMHO) could only have been attributed to a 'driver error'.

To then find-out, at a later meeting, that a now former driver (Male), has lodged a protest not only against the organising club, but is also advocating possible legal actions against the volunteer marshals of the day, left me with a feeling of "just why do we do this?" We (marshals/officials/rescue/committee members etc) do what we do for the love of the sport. To have been castigated in the way I was on that day (and since) for trying to ........
"Do Our Best" makes me wonder just why any of us bother.

but then I realise why we do......

even with all the negative comments in this thread, there is a common thought throughout....

we are only bothering to comment about this because we all actually care about our sport and want it to be the best/safest/most friendly/most exciting or whatever. That's why we all do what we do and long may we all be friends enough to be able to disagree and yet still be able to discuss and hopefully move things forward to our "Perfect Event".

[Pistonbroke]

From one of the 'over zealous', well said Stuart

[Sonic rescue]

Yes there was quite alot of sighs, but being a spectator before becoming one of you guys, I would not have understood the complete reason for all the flags, only now do I understaqnd the importance of keeping the track as clear as possible. So to be fair to the public, they probably dont know, and didn't understand.
One a lighter note, for that weekend. One of the spectators a young man in his 20's said to me, 'I could go faster than any of these guys' I replyed with just 'oh right'. Then he actually watched them for a bit, and could see the speed they went past Pardon, usally on three wheels, and they were very close to the barriers, so rummbled them, and the crowd were 'oohhing and arrhing' and I just turned and looked at this boy, and he looked a little sheepish, to say the least.

[blackx]

Originally Posted by jetskidia

Main reason for most of the red flags were due to the over zealous marshalls at Ettores being over keen on keeping the track clean

Perhaps there would have been complaints if marshals hadn't swept up after runs like this http://www.top12runoff.com/photo.asp...diumFile&id=38

Now lets make it clear from the outset..

I'm not knocking the driver for taking the lines he has but lets be fair here..

If thats the way its gonna be then put up with the constant stoppages for track cleaning duties...




Sorry for the link but I felt it was a good example of what caused the stoppages

[Paul Ranson]

Or remove the source of the dirt. The lines haven't changed and the red flag rate was extraordinary. OTOH in terms of getting the track ready this was probably way down the list and possibly not obvious until running started...

Paul

[blackx]

Originally Posted by Paul Ranson

Or remove the source of the dirt. The lines haven't changed and the red flag rate was extraordinary.

Paul

The lines have quite obviously changed as there was dirt being chucked all over the place every other car

I myself noticed almost every car cutting the corner quite sharply going round orchard towards ettories.......Something I have never witnessed before.


The source of dirt could be removed but replaced with what
Perhaps a water feature
A brick wall

[hillsprint77]

Here you go a water feature and a wall Try cutting that




Spelga Pass 1992

[Stuart Hill]

or even.......... having walked the hill before one's run.....

"if I cut this corner and save myself one tenth.... I might compromise the track for my rivals???? "

But no-one in Hillclimbing would ever think that, would they?


so it must be the Marshal's fault! again!!!!

[Stuart Hill]

Originally Posted by Paul Ranson

Or remove the source of the dirt. The lines haven't changed and the red flag rate was extraordinary. OTOH in terms of getting the track ready this was probably way down the list and possibly not obvious until running started...

Paul

sorry Paul, but........

"Driver's bit = Grey Bit"
"Marshal's Bit = Greenish Stuff"

go off line and suffer the consequences or stay on-line and be quick.

Your choice.

[welshgal_2006]

Originally Posted by Paul Ranson

Or remove the source of the dirt. The lines haven't changed and the red flag rate was extraordinary. OTOH in terms of getting the track ready this was probably way down the list and possibly not obvious until running started...

Paul

From watching Sunday when walking the hill, I can quite honestly say that some drivers, not all have changed their driving lines. As shown in the photo above the amount of rubbish that has been kicked up is huge. However. as I have also mentioned in a previous post, the amount of rubbish being kicked up is also due to the awful weather some hills have experienced lately. These hills were safe to drive on. As Marshalls, we look after the drivers safety... if this does mean that we have to sweep after every other car then so be it... Surely we all go to the events because we enjoy it and it is fun and not because we want to be at home with a cup of tea by 7 at the latest?

[Woolley]

There's probably not many corners you can cut on a hillclimb, so imagine it's nice to get the chance. However, if that corner is full of gunk then there's a payback. Priorities for all venues this year has just been keeping everything going, so I guess we can put this one down to extreme circumstances and move on.

[Sonic rescue]

Originally Posted by welshgal_2006

From watching Sunday when walking the hill, I can quite honestly say that some drivers, not all have changed their driving lines. As shown in the photo above the amount of rubbish that has been kicked up is huge. However. as I have also mentioned in a previous post, the amount of rubbish being kicked up is also due to the awful weather some hills have experienced lately. These hills were safe to drive on. As Marshalls, we look after the drivers safety... if this does mean that we have to sweep after every other car then so be it... Surely we all go to the events because we enjoy it and it is fun and not because we want to be at home with a cup of tea by 7 at the latest?

Well said very, diplomatic, but true. Although at this rate we'll be having this post closed, it's nobodies fault, it's so easy to always try and blame someone else, but it was just a bad day on ettories and everyone was trying their best to keep what standard they deemed necessary. I'm sure if they are reading this they might think twice about cleaning up afterwards, and that would be a bad thing, for all of us, dont you think. When all's said and done, it's happened nothing can be done about it, I'm sure it will be sorted by the end of the month, for the next meeting. x x x

[Pistonbroke]

I wish, I wish