Your top ten drivers from the 2005 Formula 1 season

[SpawnyWhippet]

I am somewhat surprised at the number of people who placed Kimi second for the reason of making too many mistakes. IIRC, Kimi and Alonso only made 1 serious mistake each in the whole season. However, here's my choices:

1. Kimi. Fastest out there, made only 1 serious mistake all season despite having to drive harder than everyone else. Only engine reliability cost him the WDC.

2. Alonso. Astonishingly mature drive and nearly the perfect season in a car that was usually slower than the McLaren. Destroyed his team mate convincingly and made the best 2 overtaking maneuvres in a single race that I have ever seen in F1.

3. Monteiro. Who would have thought that this rookie could drag this car into the points at all, let alone get a podium and finish nearly every race in his debut year? He exceeded expectations more than any other driver this year, scoring nearly as many points as Klien in the much better RBR. (I know most of his points came from Indy, but don't burst his bubble yet!) Very promising young driver who deserves a shot at a midfield team.

4. Michael. Not a driver I like, but gets 4th place for another season of lifting recalcitrant machinery into positions it didn't deserve. Destroyed his team mate (again).

5. DC. An unbelievable start to the season at Melbourne, and he maintained his early promise through the season. A great Indian Summer.

6. Klien. Also exceeded expectations, leading me to speculate that the RBR is a better car than commonly perceived.

7. Jenson. Almost beat Rubens with an unfit car that seemed to run out of breath after 3 laps. Smooth driving, few mistakes, and another who destroyed his team mate. Breathtaking pass on JV at Spa.

8. Nick. I am pleased to see that he got a 'frontline' drive that finally led to a decent contract with BMW. Has always been quick and never really had a chance to shine before.

9. Ralf. Another one of my disliked drivers. However his consistency and frequent top 5 finishes from mid season means that he earnt a top ten placing. If he had not had such a poor start to the season, he would have been a top 5 in my book.

10. Jarno. Frequently outclassed his much-hyped team mate. Ralfs late season improvement stole a march on him just as he faded away.

I would have liked to see Liuzzi in a few more outings in order to judge him better.

[Knowlesy]

You criticise those who put Kimi second, yet you put Monteiro third?!?

[John Turner]

O.K. I had tried to paste a small spreadsheet in here without success; hence my deleted post. I've taken the 34 completed sets of top ten driver postings and attempted to collate the information. The following criteria apply;

1) Only those who have posted a full 10 drivers have been counted. That was up to and including Andy Dickens this afternoon, but excluding Dan's as he has Jarno in twice. If you'd like to change that Dan, I'll add yours in too!
Also if anyone wishes to top up their list to ten, I'll incorporate them also.

2) I have only counted the first 10 in anyone's list whether or not they have eg 4 x 9th= !

3) The points run 10 for first down to 1 for 10th but where there are equal positions, they get equal scores down to 1, eg Menelaos scores for his 10 drivers 10, 10, 8, 8, 8, 5, 5, 5, 2, 2.

4) No complaints, it's my work!

The figures after the driver represent respectively, No. of top ten entries/No. of points score in this exercise/their finishing position in the WDC. If I could show it better, I would, and may still try if more top tens are posted.

1 Alonso / 34 / 331 / 1
2 Raikkonen / 34 / 310 / 2
3 Montoya / 33 / 218 / 4
4 Coulthard / 30 / 194 / 12
5 Schumacher. M / 28 / 176 / 3
6 Heidfeld / 29 / 126 / 11
7 Button / 27 / 112 / 8
8 Trulli / 27 / 99 / 7
9 Klien / 18 / 77 / 14=
10 Schumacher. R / 20 / 62 / 6
11 Fisichella / 17 / 59 / 5
12 Webber / 17 / 54 / 10
13 Montiero / 13 / 47 / 16
14 Albers / 6 / 10 / 19
15 Massa / 3 / 6 / 13
16 De La Rosa / 2 / 4 / 20
17 Barrichello / 1 / 3 / 8
18 Liuzzi / 1 / 1 / 24

There are, to me at any rate, some fairly interesting outcomes here. DC has clearly re-established himself in the eyes of many here. Rubens, on the other hand has sunk almost without trace, and Sato entirely so. Of the Top Ten, Klien stands out at 9th because he actually was only rated by 18 of you, but clearly when he was rated, it was highly. De La Rosa only raced once and though it was a good result, does he really rate a top ten place? Two of you obviously thought so. Only the 2 top drivers got into all 34 lists. Alonso has only dropped 9 points from the maximum, so a clear winner, so far.

This is all a bit of fun, not to be taken too seriously. Any views?

[Dutton]

I think it says a lot for Albers and Monteiro.

[Alwaysfirst]

1-Raikkonen
2-Alonso
3-DC
4-M Schumacher
5-Klien
6-Button
7-Monteiro
8-Heidfeld
9-Trulli
10-Wurz (only appeared in 1 race but a podium was impressive)

[Louis B.]

1. Alonso;
2. Kimi
3. MS
4. N. Heidfeld
5. Felipe Massa
6. JB
7. Trulli
8. JPM
9. C Klien
10.Albers

[senna12]

1. Alonso
2. Raikkonen
3. Montoya
4. M. Schumacher
5. Coulthard
6. Klien
7. Heidfeld
8. Trulli
9. Button
10. Fisichella

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Dutton

I think it says a lot for Albers and Monteiro.

Certainly agree about Monteiro with 13 entries (and 1 more to add already!)and 47 points, but he is the last 'serious' player here really, and is the cut off point, with Albers the next with only 6 (but with another to add as well) entries and 10 points.

It looks like a few more want to have their input, so I will wait a week or so before updating. This is a great thread Knowlesy started and it will be interesting to see how close the combined efforts of the posters here get to the Autocourse rating. Mind you if they differ to any degree, we can always say it was they who got it wrong!

[SpawnyWhippet]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

You criticise those who put Kimi second, yet you put Monteiro third?!?

Yup. I spent a bit of time trying to work out the drivers contribution minus the car contribution, and Monteiro appeared 3rd overall. Kind of surprised me too, but I think if you stuck Kimi or Alonso in the Jordanski they would have been struggling to finish alongside Sauber and BAR too.

[alesi95]

1. Fernando Alonso : Speed and Smarts
2. Kimi Raikonen: Superfast but how much of it was the Mclaren?
3. JP Montoya: mid season injury killed his season
4. Jarno Trulli: Anhilated his team mate until late car development
5. Michael Schumacher: Really thought he was back after Imola performance
6. David Coulthard: is back
7. Nick Heidfeld: Anhilated his team mate until injury
8. Jenson Button: Struggled with lack of grip
9. Christian Klein: Development into a mighty fine driver
10.Giancarlo Fisichella: was Alonsos number 2.

[alesi95]

Originally Posted by senna12

1. Alonso
2. Raikkonen
3. Montoya
4. M. Schumacher
5. Coulthard
6. Klien
7. Heidfeld
8. Trulli
9. Button
10. Fisichella

yes.

[beau1]

1.Fernando Alonso
2.Kimi Raikkonen
3.Michael Schumacher
4.Juan Pablo Montoya
5.Nick Heidfeld
6.David Couldthard
7.Jarno Trulli
8.Ralf Schumacher
9.Tiago Monterio
10.Christian Klien


Disappointing
Barrichello
Fisichella
Sato
Button
Villeneuve

[Raven]

1. Alonso
2. Raikkonen
3. M.Schumacher
4. Montoya
5. Coulthard
6. Button
7. Trulli
8. R.Schumacher
9. Heidfeld
10. Fisichella

Honourable mentions:
de la Rosa
Massa
Klien

[SpawnyWhippet]

Originally Posted by alesi95

7. Nick Heidfeld: Anhilated his team mate until injury

I wouldn't say Nick anhilated Mark, but if I was SFW, I would certainly have looked to Nick as the No.1 driver next year, rather than Mark. Also, I think Mark would have been the first driver I released to BMW. Mostly this is an expectation thing - I expected Mark to do a lot better than he did, and I expected Nick to do slightly worse than he did.

[freud]

I would not put any order but following were very impressive:

Alonso - no doubt about it; specially at he was fantastic at Imola

Montoya/Raikonnen - Kimi was solid and consistent but JPM at Spa was drive of the season.

Heidfeld - proves his worth in F1

Ralph Schumacher - Some great drives. Beating Trulli wasnt easy

Trulli - tremendous qualifier and in general great for Toyota

Michael Schumacher - Driving at 36 years of age isnt easy. The overtaking manouvere of Rubens at the USGP was kind of cool, at least I thought. He did get the points on the board.

[ttc]

Originally Posted by Dan Fielden

1) Fernando Alonso
2) Kimi Raikkonen
3) Juan Pablo Montoya
4) Rubens Barrichello
5) David Coulthard
6) Jarno Trulli
7) Christian Klien
8) Micheal Schumacher
9) Jarno Trulli
10) Jenson Button

RB 4th and MS 8th?

[BootsOntheSide]

Amusing that the man who's spent the entire season defending JV's performances has found another way to spin things - inflating the driving of his hitherto-mediocre team-mate. At least he didn't have the chutzpah to include JV in the top 10.

Rubens above Michael seems illogical to me. Don't say 'expectations', because if you gave Micahel the 4th best car (at best), you couldn't reasonably expect him to do any better than he did. Even if you ignore Indy he beat everyone except the McLarens and Renaults. Trulli well ahead of Ralf is strange as well - who scored more points in the end?

[f1manoz]

1. Alonso - Best driver all season. Intelligent driving mixed with a cool, tactical mind and spellbinding speed. Add to that he's won the lot in the second best car and he certainly deserves all the praise.

2. Raikkonen - Unlucky. There's no doubting the Finn is fast and the McLaren was best, but you need to finish those races. Too many engines failures cost him. '06 I s'pose...

3. Montoya - Should have run the two above closer by for a shoulder injury and getting involved in other people's incidents. But after a settling year, he'll do well next season.

4. Coulthard - Re-emerged after stagnation at McLaren. In his element at Red Bull, seems to be enjoying himself again.

5. Heidfeld - Until his injury, was easily showing Webber that way. Hopefully he will continue his rise at BMW.

6. Klien - After a difficult debut, really came on strong this season with some good drives. Certainly deserved to stay for '06.

7. M Schumacher - Poor season compared to his lofty standards. Few memorable drives, seemed rather bored for most of the season.

8. Trulli - Started the season with a bang but it ended with a whimper (again.) Showed Ralf the way for most of the season.

9. Button - The lofty heights of 2004 were always going to be difficult to reciprocate this season but he certainly came on strong in the second half.

10. Ralf - Generally outpaced by Trulli but he got the job done in the end.

Of the rest, Webber impressed and depressed in equal amounts, Fisichella was generally anonymous all season and was disappointing, Barrichello struggled, Sato was simply awful while the rest just made up the numbers.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Amusing that the man who's spent the entire season defending JV's performances has found another way to spin things - inflating the driving of his hitherto-mediocre team-mate. At least he didn't have the chutzpah to include JV in the top 10.

A bit harsh, Boots; he wears his heart on his sleeve and admits to it. Placing Massa there is, in my opinion, generous, but that's all it is; an opinion, as are all these here. As you point out, there are others, which may seem to us, out of place, but the variety adds interest, don't you think?

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Placing Rubens above Michael seems illogical to me. Don't say 'expectations', because if you gave Micahel the 4th best car (at best), you couldn't reasonably expect him to do any better than he did. Even if you ignore Indy he beat everyone except the McLarens and Renaults.

Absolutely agree about Michael. I think that Rubens was, for much of the season far more 'out of salts' than his team mate.

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Trulli well ahead of Ralf is strange as well - who scored more points in the end?

Yes, it was a season of two halves for the Toyota drivers really, and I don't think great qualifying (apart obviously from giving you a stronger chance to score well) is as important as the race itself. The problem is that Jarno is a popular chap whereas a lot of people think that Ralf is overpaid (irrelevant really since that is Toyota's choice) and is only there because of his surname (actually, a handicap, in my view). Interestingly, John McIlroy, allegedly speaking for the whole of his editorial staff, says in this weeks Autosport, that 'we're only sorry' Ralf finished above Jarno in the Championship, which he describes as 'surely the injustice of the season'. I can't say that I agree with him (or them?) but then I find myself increasingly at odds with John's views. However, I do admit to placing Jarno slightly ahead of Ralf in my ratings merely because of my expectation of the two; I still rate Ralf highly as a driver but he didn't quite reach my expectation of him this year, yet he did finally edge out Jarno (who I also admire incidentally) in the last race.

[Menelaos]

Originally Posted by ttc

RB 4th and MS 8th?

good one indeed

[Joe Taylor]

1) Alonso - not necessarily the fastest but overall the best
2) Raikkonen - probably the fastest, but not as good as Alonso in 'thinking' situations

Right, that's the easy bit done...

3) David Coulthard - a surprise I know but he really rediscovered his form this year
4) Montoya - recovered well from a shaky start to be on Raikkonen's pace by the end of the season
5) Heidfeld - All was well until Monza
6) Schumacher - still fast when the car would allow but too many off days, many of which were his own making
7) Klien - really came of age this year - deserves to stay in the full caffeine Red Bull next year
8) Button - recovered from dreadful start, race pace was disappointing but not all down to him
9) Trulli - great start, shaky end
10) Ralf - reverse of Trulli

Winner of the 'should have stayed at home' award - Sato

[Menelaos]

Originally Posted by Heebeegeetee

Then in the race he needed to put in a Schumacher-esque series of laps to ensure he emerged in front of JPM after the second stops. He couldn’t do it.

In Japan, he couldn’t match his peers in the number of cars overtaken by the end of the first lap, and indeed he had been passed by his team mate. At least JPM then threw it off, to save Kimi from further embarrassment. Kimi enjoyed the luxury of having Fernando show him where and how to pass Michael, but again, he couldn’t do it.

In terms of speed, FA showed he was too quick for the FIA, in Japan. He allowed Klien to repass him so quickly the FIA hadn’t noticed, and by the time the FIA rescinded their instruction, it was too late and again Fernando had acted too quickly for them. That almost certainly cost him the win, although the initial fault in cocking up passing Klien was Fernando’s alone.

Come China, and again FA throws the gauntlets down to Kimi. Kimi was too slow, and started third, which meant he was stuck behind Fisi. The safety car robbed us of seeing who had what fuel, but Renault are saying that FA wasn’t light.

Heebeegeetee, I don't agree with you about Kimi obviously, which is no news I do agree about Fernando being very fast and I do agree about Klien being impressive too. I also agree about Schumi being very good this year, and underrated by many. But when you talk about Raikkonen, I'm just wondering if you're joking. Sorry, but seriously I can't help it. You say he's not fast. You say he couldn't do the "Schumacher-esque" laps. But wasn't this EXACTLY what he had been doing in so many races this season? I would probably agree that he's not the best at overtaking, but being fast when he needs and has no one in front of him is exactly is what he's best at.

I think Alonso risked too much at that point. If it wasn't MS but JPM, they'd both be out of the track. That was NOT a good move, imo. Also, what's the deal, can't anyone have a bad start? What's wrong with you?

About the FIA incident in Japan. The way Alonso "fixed" his mistake in the first place was RIDICULOUS!!! He let Klien pass him, but maintained his speed and passed him again. Is that a fair move?

Also, McLaren was indeed not as good as Renault in China. So what? Does that prove that Alonso is better than Raikkonen? Then we surely must count any race where Kimi was faster and end up with something like 13-6 for Raikkonen? It's really funny how you conveniently block out the full picture and just focus on a couple of details to prove your opinion. It's your opinion, ok, no problem with that, but I think your arguments are fragile.

[safc_fan89]

Top 10 drivers:

1. Fernando Alonso. I may think Kimi is fast=er but Alonso is the champion and that's what counts.

2. Kimi Raikkonen. Drove brilliantly for most of the season, but his and Mclaren's average start cost him dearly.

3. David Coulthard. Did way better than I expected, showing there's life in him yet.

4. JP Montoya. Some of his driving has been equally as good as Kimi's, just a shame he has a tendency to ruin good eprformances with stupid errors.

5. Nick Heidfeld. Prior to his 'injury' he did a great job in a below-average Williams, showing that he is underrated and Mark Webber is overrated.

6. M Schumacher. He has done a good job this season, but it has been littered with mistakes too.

7. Christian Klien. Most improved driver. Deserves a seat at red Bull next year.

8. Ralf Schumacher. He's done a better job than Trulli now.

9. Giancarlo Fisichella. Some good drives but really he should have challenged for wins a lot more in what was a great car.

10. Jenson Button. Some decent drives during the year, but still a fairly poor year.

[timmadigan]

1. Alonso - WDC is hard to vote against
2. Kimi - got a lot out of a unreliable fast car
3. MS - found speed in an average car. Would still be highest non-McLaren/Renault drivers even without the USGP points.
4. Heidfeld - showed speed/ability with a so-so Williams car
5. Button - the top of an average middle-pack
6. JPM - given a fast car and didn't do enough with it. Is still too accident prone
7. Fisi - Given that Renault and JPM's problems, she should have scored higher. a definate let down
8. (tie). Trulli & Ralf - They had speed at times but were equally inconsistant at different parts of the weekend.
10. JV - can still drive, but he doesn't seem to have his heart into the sport anymore.

[youngoldy]

Without a doubt, you've got to say

1) Alonso. Have to say he coped with the pressure of Kimi catching up with him in last half of the champ, and drove very, very consistantly in a slower car than McLaren (at some tracks). Bravo Fernando
2) Kimi had done nothing wrong in the whole champ, just the reliability pulled him down. If Mclaren can build an euqally quick car as this year without the reliability problems, then I'd tip them for Cons. and Drivers champ.
3) This might shock quite a few people, but I'd have to say Monteiro. The Minardis were quicker than him in some qualifying sessions, but he run thurther into the race with more fuel, and to only have 1 retirement out of 19, is unbelieveable, and I think a good way to end Jordans F1 life. Brazil qual was very impressive, shame he had to start from pits. Awsome in Belgium. And to finish ahead of Barrichello in China, woo hoo!
4) OK, I'm not his biggest fan, but Michael has done good in a relativly slow car. Imola, Canada and the other race (not Indy!!) where the car showed signs of strength.
5) Montoya. Expected more from him this year, but has settled nicely into McLaren, and should be very quick over next year. And Juan, stick to 4 wheels over winter)
6) Fisi, I thought he was going to go all the way this year after Melbourne, and finally make it as a consistant winner and title challenger, but maybe next year.
7) Think the Toyotas have to come here, huge budget has moved them up, and expect them to be even higher next year.
8) Coulthard has done well to move from a title winning team to a rebadged Jaguar team. I think RBR has proved many people wrong this year, and with running 6 cars next year at practice sessions, should have plenty of data to keep the mechanics busy!!
9) Hard to say now really. Think Wurz and De La Ros did very well replacing JPM. Wurz got his first podium in San Marino. Rosa put on a good show with lunges and overtaking in Bahrain, deserved more than 5th position.
10) Now I have had to look at Autosport championship table to remind myself of who else is in F1!! Pizzonia in Italy was impressive. Jumped into the car for the first time in however many months it was since he last drove the car, put it 16th on the grid, and finish 7th.

!!!Roll on 2006!!!