[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Purist

JAG, the serious privateers over here aren't interested in second tier scraps, a lot of the other privateers are in GA, and how "budget" could P2 have been before Acura and Porsche showed up? None of the cars specifically designed for P675/P2 have been exactly cheap. And before they showed up, the old SRPII Lolas and Pilbeams weren't especially reliable, so before the factories appeared, the class was a joke.

And if P1 is so encouraging to new technologies, then NO, privateers will be FAR less competitive there than they are now. The small constructors simply don't have the R&D capacity to keep up with that. And the only manufacturer interested in sportscar racing that I have faith would produce customer cars is Porsche, but they're NOT in P1 and there's no indication that they will be soon.

The ALMS's problem is a lack of privateer's fullstop, whether running P900/P675 or P1/P2.

P1 will always be expensive, but there's no need for an equally expensive P2, there needs to be a much cheaper entry level P2 class.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JAG

The ALMS's problem is a lack of privateer's fullstop, there needs to be a much cheaper entry level P2 class.

Jag please let me know how to archive this?

P2 cars with spare parts for start up, $2 million
and running a full ALMS P2 season $2 to $4 million.

So what? looking a $4 to $6 milion for the first year?

That may be why GARR is popular, teams can get started and run a DP for the first your for $2 to $4 million.

Should IMSA and ALMS allow GARR DPs to run in LMP2, just to get the more cars on the grid?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Should IMSA and ALMS allow GARR DPs to run in LMP2, just to get the more cars on the grid?

No, but maybe take a few ideas out of the GARRA-playbook for a truely affordable P2-class. How about tubeframe-Spyders with a spec-carbofibre-monocoque, or something like that?
The GT2-engines for P2 from 2011 are a good start, but IMO they should make the cars much simpler on the chassis-side as well.

[AU N EGL]

Who and were are all the LMP2 chassies built?

Having them built in the US would make it much easier for ALMS teams.

[Fogelhund]

You will find that running costs are not appreciably different between Grand Am and ALMS.

I am not sure what ideas the ALMS would entertain, if you see Audi drop out, leaving somewhere in the 16-20 cars entries for most of the season. I might suggest that IMSA lites, or a GT3 category would be added first.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

I am not sure what ideas the ALMS would entertain, if you see Audi drop out, leaving somewhere in the 16-20 cars entries for most of the season. I might suggest that IMSA lites, or a GT3 category would be added first.

Can the Lites-cars be raced in endurance races? Do they have airjacks and can be quick-fueled from a rig?
And then there's no proper GT3-series in the US right now, wouldn't it be easier to just take over the SWC-rules? But then again, are SWC-cars layed out for endurance racing?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Jag please let me know how to archive this?

P2 cars with spare parts for start up, $2 million
and running a full ALMS P2 season $2 to $4 million.

So what? looking a $4 to $6 milion for the first year?

That may be why GARR is popular, teams can get started and run a DP for the first your for $2 to $4 million.

Should IMSA and ALMS allow GARR DPs to run in LMP2, just to get the more cars on the grid?

Are chassis costs the biggest issue, how many have Dyson owned in the last decade, how much have they recouped from selling these cars on?

We know the RS Spyder and the associated package is far more expensive than even the Lola Coupe, nevermind the Pescarolo P2 which has scored numerous podium places in the LMS this season.

Even if you can afford an RS Spyder, can you afford the best tyre package, drivers, testing, new engines each event etc.?

In the LMS Dyson would be the biggest, best financed, P2 team, yet in the ALMS Penske and the Acura teams were all better off.

LMS team RML are competitive with a Lola chassis and amateur (much improved) driver, the Pescarola P2 is arguably not upto the Lola's pace, but in that case a young, pro driving team, can put the car on the pace.

If you remove factory backed teams, run one engine per season etc., by 2011 you could have GT, LMP Lights etc. teams eyeing up a P2 entry, particularly if Dyson move to P1 with the Mazda package.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Can the Lites-cars be raced in endurance races? Do they have airjacks and can be quick-fueled from a rig?
And then there's no proper GT3-series in the US right now, wouldn't it be easier to just take over the SWC-rules? But then again, are SWC-cars layed out for endurance racing?

GT3 racing in the US is not the same as GT3 racing in Europe. IMSA GT3 is for Porsche GT3 cup cars. SWC is really the closest to GT3. or more in between GT3 and GT2

[AU N EGL]

One engine per weekend, not per season. One engine per season with how many rebuilds?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

One engine per weekend, not per season. One engine per season with how many rebuilds?

My point was if your up against a Penske level team, you have to match them in terms of preperation, rebuilds, and the like to be competitive, this is meant to be a privateer friendly P2 class.

Even Dyson ran different spec, more durable engines, and they are as good as privateer's get.

Without factory teams, and more durable chassis/engines, smaller teams can run to tighter budgets, and still be relatively competitive, much like the LMS today.

[gwyllion]

The latest press release by ACO contains a tiny bit more information about the 2011 rules: http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans...presse1_gb.pdf

The ACO confirms the 2011 regulations:

• New engines 520 bhp (Turbo Diesel 3,7 L - Petrol unsupercharged 3,4 L - Petrol Turbo 2 L)
• Fuel tank capacity reduction (75 l. compared to 90 l. for petrol engines, and 65 l. compared to 81 l. for diesel engines)
• Present chassis accepted. In keeping with the continuity of 2010, a study of technical solutions to reduce aerodynamic downforce will be carried out

In a previous version they said diesel would get a 68 liter tank.

There could be more cost saving in LMP2:

Other areas being studied: cost controls (engines, gearboxes), standardisation (Engine Control Unit), telemetry banned, reduction in the number of engines and gearbox casings

[Matt]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The latest press release by ACO contains a tiny bit more information about the 2011 rules: http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans...presse1_gb.pdf

In a previous version they said diesel would get a 68 liter tank.

There could be more cost saving in LMP2:

Wow, that's really lame, max engine size of 3,4l?

[deggis]

3.4L was news in September. But it isn't any less depressing now. Most depressing part is the target hp figure.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Matt

Wow, that's really lame, max engine size of 3,4l?

Yes, future LMP1 cars will use the current LMP2 engines and future LMP2 cars will use a production derived GT engine. That has been know for a year now.

[deggis]

Btw max cylinders are not mentioned in that PDF, unlike in the previous PDF releases. Not that this would necessarily mean anything.

[gucom]

I had sort of hoped they'd end up changing the rules less drastically than originally planned, just as with the Evo rules... those small engines and low hp figures are really depressing, I hope manufacturers can find creative solutions to bring back >600hp engines... I mean, if I'm not mistaken, the new LMP1 will basically be current LMP2 with increased weight and smaller fuel tanks?

Also, wouldn't that give Porsche the best starting position with their current vastly superior LMP2 package? I'd love to see them back in LMP1 but not like this...

[joeb]

Originally Posted by gucom

I mean, if I'm not mistaken, the new LMP1 will basically be current LMP2 with increased weight and smaller fuel tanks?

Also, wouldn't that give Porsche the best starting position with their current vastly superior LMP2 package? I'd love to see them back in LMP1 but not like this...

I would think Acura and Lola would have some pretty good packages available too.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by joeb

I would think Acura and Lola would have some pretty good packages available too.

Also Ginetta and Pescarolo!

[JAG]

The 2011 cars will be like the P2 RS Spyder in it's ultimate 2008 ALMS configeration, but at 900kg.

[duke_toaster]

The LMP2 engine bit is fine ... the problem is that they are coupling that with fat suits.

[b555]

It is going to be very interesting to see how the ACO is going to keep the P1 engines at 520 hp with ongoing development by the engine manufacturers.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by b555

It is going to be very interesting to see how the ACO is going to keep the P1 engines at 520 hp with ongoing development by the engine manufacturers.

Rewarding great engineering with even smaller restrictors.

[JAG]

520bhp is the current headline figure for P2, it doesn't have a real bearing on reality, just as diesels supposedly have 650bhp.

[Dario911]

At the end of june, ACO and manifacturers will meet, to concord the future rules. ACO would discuss about future rules with teams, to find a good accord between the parts.
Not just like the FIA.

Here the link to an interesting new: http://www.stopandgo.tv/news/enduran...-mans-/en.html

I don't agree with how is affirmed in the new, because too much manifacturers would destroy private teams...

[Ted bennett]

Is 900 Kilo confirmed for P1 2011 ? I have never really understood why P1 has such a high minimum weight, if anything it should be the reverse of the current set up between P1 and P2. It would not need any special engineering effort to get a 3.4 litre engined sportscar down to something like 750 kilo. The XJR-14 required ballast to make the 750 kilo limit which was of course a closed roof car complete with the mandatory beefy roll cage and that was almost twenty years ago. The top prototype category should have fast cars which will be unlikely with a 520 hp 900 kilo slug.