Team McLaren - can they compete? - Page 49

Richard C · 5 Jul 2018, 22:12 (Ref:3834897)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

do we know their budget for 2018? i would think that it would still be some ways off of RB.

No clue. My gut however is telling me that they should be (performance wise as I am ignoring your point about potential budget disparity) somewhere between Red Bull and Renault. Current championship points for those two are...

189 Red Bull Racing
62 Renault

That is a huge points spread for them to live in. But I wouldn't try to argue strongly for them being close to Red Bull Racing. As it stands now they are 18 points behind Renault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Stunning admission on the back of other news.

Suppose credit should be given to the zak brown media empire for not sugar coating/white washing of the team's troubles.

Frankly I am impressed at the amount of humble pie they are eating. So kudos to Zak on that. He mentions in that article that it will be "years" to correct their issues!

I will also say... if he has sold the shareholders on that timeline as well as him being part of the solution and not the problem. Again... kudos to him for pulling that off!

I can only speculate as to why they are having issues. Clearly Eric Boullier was pushed out. For many, there is the "bucks stops here" type of logic in that regardless of who is at fault, it reflects upon whoever is in charge. I personally am not a fan of that unless the person at the top really is part of the problem and that an exit is the best thing overall. I think that many times when that type of thing happens (racing or otherwise), it is more a message to the world that "We take this seriously!"

I think it was an interview with Sky Sports that was posted on YouTube in which Zak made comments about not being nimble. I can imagine their problem is that they have developed themselves into a corner and due to organizational/structural issues, can't easily find their way out. So maybe management is the issue? It seems that at the moment they have had correlation issues between their CFD/tunnel work and the on track reality. I don't know. All speculation on my part.

Richard

Skam85 · 5 Jul 2018, 23:19 (Ref:3834902)

It was never going to be a 'bang a better engine in and we'll be at the front' fix for McLaren. It's extremely naïve to think that on their part.

Engines and chassis' don't integrate to optimal performance immediately, it takes track time and testing for teams to perfect this. Renault also came on board with McLaren last year quite late in the game.

Alonso is making the car look better than it is, conversely Vandoorne I don't believe is driving to the cars' potential.

The acid test will be next year, when they a) have built their next car completely around the Renault package, and b) the possibility of no Alonso to drag the car higher (I sincerely hope he stays).

steve_r · 6 Jul 2018, 09:03 (Ref:3834964)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skam85

It was never going to be a 'bang a better engine in and we'll be at the front' fix for McLaren. It's extremely naïve to think that on their part.

I see your point, but there is always an exception to the rule!

Mike Harte · 6 Jul 2018, 09:12 (Ref:3834966)

And I raise you:

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Skam85 · 6 Jul 2018, 14:29 (Ref:3835001)

haha, both great points!

**bjohnsonsmith** · 6 Jul 2018, 14:53 (Ref:3835002)

Don't forget the BT19 with it's 3.0L Repco engine in 1966.

Racer65 · 7 Jul 2018, 07:18 (Ref:3835126)

The "bang a different engine" in is only relevant if it's going in exactly the same car. The McLaren isn't the same car as last year and the Brawn/Honda had been in development for nearly 2 years and had (allegedly) more money spent on it's development than any other car in history up to that point.

With the engine it was designed for, meaning the balance would have been where designed and the rear suspension not being so compromised, it might have been even faster than it was with the Mercedes.

I'd love to see last years McLaren with this years engine but that will never happen.

S griffin · 7 Jul 2018, 08:21 (Ref:3835130)

The Brawn was made with Honda money, so who knows what would have happened with a Honda engine in it?

VIVA GT · 7 Jul 2018, 14:24 (Ref:3835207)

I've just watched qualifying, what's the McLaren Shadow thing (as shown on the inside of the halo) about? Has uncle Zac managed to engineer a title sponsorship deal from UoP?

Akrapovic · 7 Jul 2018, 16:01 (Ref:3835219)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I've just watched qualifying, what's the McLaren Shadow thing (as shown on the inside of the halo) about? Has uncle Zac managed to engineer a title sponsorship deal from UoP?

It's a McLaren run E-Sports series.

https://www.mclaren.com/formula1/201...hadow-project/

VIVA GT · 8 Jul 2018, 06:14 (Ref:3835343)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

It's a McLaren run E-Sports series.

https://www.mclaren.com/formula1/201...hadow-project/

Thanks for taking the trouble...

Mekola · 8 Jul 2018, 15:08 (Ref:3835435)

And then? Will Apple Corp finally buy McLaren???

Casper · 10 Jul 2018, 07:44 (Ref:3835819)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

The Brawn was made with Honda money, so who knows what would have happened with a Honda engine in it?

Watch the Motorsport Magazine interview with Ross Brawn and I think you get a good idea of what would have been. It should be required viewing for anyone who is interested in Honda's participation in F1.

Mekola · 10 Jul 2018, 11:29 (Ref:3835857)

They must lure Spanish sponsors, at least ist Fon's team.
Is an excellent chance for REPSOL to sponsor the team.
It matches even the car colours.

Repsol must sponsor McLaren with immediate effect.
Several petroleum company men agree with me.

Even my friends on Middle East...

**bjohnsonsmith** · 11 Jul 2018, 02:40 (Ref:3835988)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

Watch the Motorsport Magazine interview with Ross Brawn and I think you get a good idea of what would have been. It should be required viewing for anyone who is interested in Honda's participation in F1.

Do you have a link?

Richard C · 11 Jul 2018, 11:09 (Ref:3836039)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Do you have a link?

I think this is it...

https://youtu.be/ReVb5P0mdds

I was intrigued by the same comment above, so I watched the video earlier this week.

Richard

**bjohnsonsmith** · 11 Jul 2018, 12:05 (Ref:3836055)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I think this is it...

https://youtu.be/ReVb5P0mdds

I was intrigued by the same comment above, so I watched the video earlier this week.

Richard

Thanks for that.

Mekola · 12 Jul 2018, 10:28 (Ref:3836268)

The King of Spain has an issue on it, my friends.
And he has to defend his nobleman vassal.
Is his duty...

Casper · 12 Jul 2018, 11:33 (Ref:3836282)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I think this is it...

https://youtu.be/ReVb5P0mdds

I was intrigued by the same comment above, so I watched the video earlier this week.

Richard

And your thoughts after watching it?

S griffin · 12 Jul 2018, 23:15 (Ref:3836405)

Interesting interview with two gentlemen there

Richard C · 13 Jul 2018, 15:21 (Ref:3836493)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

And your thoughts after watching it?

There was a delay between me seeing the suggestion to watch and me actually watching. During that delay I ended up forgetting "why" it came up. So I watched it somewhat cold with knowing what to pay attention to. Additionally its been a few days now since I watched it, so some details are already forgotten!

The interview was over an hour long and it left me wanting more info. Overall, it was a handful of misc anecdotes. I left with the general impression that...

* Ross was very much in charge
* He had a plan to move forward and had a good working relationship with Honda.
* That he was able to level set the performance of the overall car for the team.
* That included feedback to Honda that the existing engine was NOT competitive (contrary to what Honda had thought.)
* The focus was on 2009 and for the most part the 2008 package was ignored. It was clearly a building year.
* That the stars aligned very much properly for it them to achieve success in 2009
* That there were very short of cash and did little or no development to the 2009 package for quite a long time after the season started.
* Honda did their best to provide a soft landing for the team.
* Ross seems relatively humble and having his name on the team was both embarrassing and a source of pride.

Given your question to me above, I had to look at earlier posts to see why you brought it up. Which was basically a question of "What might it have been if Honda had remained." Clearly we will never know for sure, but thinking back to the interview some things jump out at me...

The plan was for 2008 to be a "rebuilding year" for the entire solution. So the focus was on 2009. And given the feedback to Honda from Ross, and that they seemed to have a good working relationship, that had to include improvements to the engine. The 2008 car used the RA808E engine. I seem to find evidence online that talks about a RA809E engine. Which I assume would have been the Honda engine for the 2009 car. I assume they listened to the feedback from Ross/team about the deficiencies with the 2008 engine. Plus, it is clear that Ross engaged Honda to provide them with an engine even after Honda said they were leaving. But it came across a less about Honda saying we can't, but rather that they wanted out completely. Additionally as mentioned above, the team struggled to develop the car during 2009 due to lack of funds.

If Honda had stayed, they would have still had the good double diffuser car. The RA809E engine... who knows. At a minimum it likely would have been better than 2008 and clearly would have integrated into the car better than the Mercedes unit. So it may be a wash or not much of a hindrance? They likely would have had a budget to develop the car mid-season much more than they did as Brawn. So I wouldn't beat against a Honda 2009 championships in an alternative universe.

Richard

Casper · 14 Jul 2018, 13:07 (Ref:3836638)

I haven't watched it for perhaps a year but my abiding impression was the Ross was not impressed by the management structure/style that had been put into place by Honda. It is still one of the best interviews on F1 that I have seen because it covers so much of the background management and how they revived the team for the next year on a pittance even for those days and gives a huge insight into how Ross Brawn thinks.

Nononsensecapeesh · 17 Jul 2018, 20:30 (Ref:3837176)

Isn't this thread supposed to be about McLaren?

Richard C · 17 Jul 2018, 20:44 (Ref:3837181)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

Isn't this thread supposed to be about McLaren?

You have only been here a few days and you are already telling regulars how to post! You will fit right in!

Seriously... Just look back a page and you will see how discussion on the current McLaren situation morphed into a discussion about Brawn. You will see that this happens from time to time but we eventually get back on topic.

And lastly... Welcome to 10/10ths and the F1 forum!

Richard

**bjohnsonsmith** · 17 Jul 2018, 23:17 (Ref:3837206)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

Isn't this thread supposed to be about McLaren?

It is,

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