Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 31 Jan 2005, 01:37 (Ref:1213475)   #1
Wrex
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Wrex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Australia
Melbourne - Home of the Australian GP
Posts: 7,643
Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!
The Blame Game

Over the last few years here at Ten-Tenths, I've become very frustrated with some members making comments about F1 with total ignorance to the reality of how F1 really works.

Unfortunatley, an uneducated, ill-informed or sensationalist 'Press' seem to compound the problem even further.

The mysterious Concorde Agreement (which people quote at will despite nobody ever having read it) adds to the confusion, and off we go here with the "Its all Bernie/Max's fault" comments.

Although none of us know the in's and out's of the inner workings, there is one thing that is known as fact, but missed by many a casual poster. I have been searching for the exact format for a while, and found this at Grandprix.com recently.

Quote:
The only body that has the power to make decisions about Forrmula 1 - at least according to the Concorde Agreement - is the Formula 1 Commission. The rules state that this body will meet "on a regular basis" and will decide on the matters of the moment. Its decisions then go to the FIA World Motor Sport Council and, theoretically at least, are confirmed by the FIA General Assembly at its annual meeting.

The F1 Commission is chaired by Bernie Ecclestone with Mosley as his deputy and consists of 26 votes but, at the moment, only 24 members. The discrepancy has been caused by the fact that there are only 10 teams operating whle the Concorde Agreement allows for 12. The team vote, however, goes with the majority so if six teams agree on something that counts for 12 votes on the Commission. The other members of the Commission are eight promoters (four from Europe and four from outside Europe), two sponsors (currently ExxonMobil and Marlboro), one tyre representative (currently Bridgestone) and one engine company (currently Cosworth). The other two members are the FIA president and the commercial rights holder.
So just so everyone knows, the next time you go shooting off about who is to blame, have your facts right.

Bernie and Max, control 2 votes out of 24. The teams control half of all votes, and that combined with sponsors, engine partners and tyre companies, means they have a pretty big say on how anything turns out.

So next time you dont like a rule change, post something with Frank, Jean or Rons name on it.


*gets off soapbox*
Wrex is offline  
__________________
#Keepfightingmichael
Quote
Old 31 Jan 2005, 02:07 (Ref:1213486)   #2
Testure
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location:
Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 670
Testure should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this Ecclestone fellow also the holder of many of the commercial rights to this Formula 1 thing? And don't you think that that gives him just a little more influence than his single vote would perhaps indicate?
Testure is offline  
__________________
"Meet me at the racetrack, Jack."
Quote
Old 31 Jan 2005, 04:00 (Ref:1213511)   #3
Gt_R
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location:
Singapore
Posts: 5,917
Gt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
But Bernie doesn't have to power to force all cars to run with his name on the sidepod.

There are TOO many critics who just jump and mug those guys without making the least effort to see that their accusations are even 10% true

Last edited by Gt_R; 31 Jan 2005 at 04:00.
Gt_R is offline  
__________________
Alonso: "McLaren and Williams are also great racing teams, but Ferrari is the biggest one that you can go to."
Quote
Old 31 Jan 2005, 09:08 (Ref:1213597)   #4
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 42,426
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Testure
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this Ecclestone fellow also the holder of many of the commercial rights to this Formula 1 thing? And don't you think that that gives him just a little more influence than his single vote would perhaps indicate?
Influence and persuade, yes. He is the one who coordinates the deals, however the others like it and go along with it because they chose to.
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
Quote
Old 31 Jan 2005, 09:28 (Ref:1213602)   #5
Super Tourer
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Super Tourer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
United Kingdom
East Anglia
Posts: 4,304
Super Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
As a rider to this, the Technical Working Group (TWG - which comprises the technical director of each team) - submits it's recommendations/proposals to the Formula One Commission which then act on them as per Wrex's post.

The FIA also has 'Article 7.5' of the Concorde Agrement at it's disposal which gives it power of Veto.

Last edited by Super Tourer; 31 Jan 2005 at 12:20.
Super Tourer is offline  
__________________
'I've seen it, but still don't believe it.....'
Quote
Old 31 Jan 2005, 12:20 (Ref:1213714)   #6
Inigo Montoya
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Inigo Montoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Canada
Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,181
Inigo Montoya has a real shot at the championship!Inigo Montoya has a real shot at the championship!Inigo Montoya has a real shot at the championship!Inigo Montoya has a real shot at the championship!Inigo Montoya has a real shot at the championship!Inigo Montoya has a real shot at the championship!
Still... it does not lessen my argument that some of the rule changes proposed by Max are insane.
Inigo Montoya is offline  
__________________
"And the most important thing is that we, the Vettels, the Bernies, whoever, should not destroy our own sport by making stupid comments about the ******* noise." - Niki Lauda
Quote
Old 31 Jan 2005, 12:29 (Ref:1213719)   #7
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 42,426
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Yes, but the key is that they are proposals not rules. To become rules the rest need to become insane too!
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
Quote
Old 31 Jan 2005, 12:40 (Ref:1213726)   #8
garcon
Weasel Wrangler
Veteran
 
garcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Antarctica
Wilmslow, Cheshire
Posts: 8,885
garcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
As I feared - all too plausible then...

Seriously, time served F1 watchers know well that Max's apparently insane suggestions are carefully designed to bring the teams round to some more considered changes. It's a fairly basic tactic - come to a sensible agreement or we might do this - but it seems to work...
garcon is offline  
__________________
"Never pick a fight with an ugly person, they've got nothing to lose."
Quote
Old 31 Jan 2005, 12:42 (Ref:1213729)   #9
Sodemo
Veteran
 
Sodemo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
United Kingdom
Solihull, West Mids, UK
Posts: 11,147
Sodemo has a real shot at the podium!Sodemo has a real shot at the podium!Sodemo has a real shot at the podium!Sodemo has a real shot at the podium!Sodemo has a real shot at the podium!
"Become"?

Oh "become insane" for a few minutes, sign on the dotted line, then turn sane again?

Last edited by Sodemo; 31 Jan 2005 at 12:43.
Sodemo is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jan 2005, 12:53 (Ref:1213741)   #10
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 42,426
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
If Dennis or Todt forget to take their pills for a while...
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
Quote
Old 1 Feb 2005, 17:48 (Ref:1214789)   #11
Kicking-back
Registered User
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Absolutely great point by Wrex, this one.

People on forums love to dish out blame right left and centre, because they could all do so much cheaper themselves.

Everything is either fantastic or awful, there's no grey areas, no middle ground.

Entertaining to read, on occasion, though!
Kicking-back is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Feb 2005, 18:19 (Ref:1214829)   #12
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,528
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kicking-back
Absolutely great point by Wrex, this one.

People on forums love to dish out blame right left and centre, because they could all do so much cheaper themselves.

Everything is either fantastic or awful, there's no grey areas, no middle ground.

Entertaining to read, on occasion, though!
Of couse they do.
Of course they are.

This is a forum with thousands of members all of whom (alright, most of whom) have minds of their own and believe what they choose to believe. How many of us have thought (even if its only just once) in our lives that, given the breaks that Schuey or Senna had, well, just maybe we could have been something special in a race car. Dreams and fantasies, its all part of the game, as is the praise, the irritation, the criticism et al.

Of course Wrex is right, I have no doubt about that, but don't expect everyone to believe it...........
Aysedasi is online now  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 1 Feb 2005, 18:23 (Ref:1214835)   #13
Kicking-back
Registered User
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The number of London taxi drivers who "could've been world champion if I'd had the breaks" rather bears that out
Kicking-back is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Feb 2005, 18:31 (Ref:1214845)   #14
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,528
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Yep, for sure. That just leaves the likes of me (and many thousands of others) thinking "Sod Bernie" and enjoying a blast around the 1967 Monza in a Lotus 49 more than watching a current GP....... Thank the Lord for "virtual" racing.......
Aysedasi is online now  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 1 Feb 2005, 21:38 (Ref:1214980)   #15
gfm
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 897
gfm should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgfm should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Actual Wrex, I think your point is an excellent one. But I don't know whether it's anything to do with our age, but this frustration that you've been aware that's growing is the same one I feel about how we (English?) treat stars and politicians and anyone who makes a name for themselves. We build them up only to take pot-shots at them for ever after in order to destroy them, aiding the sales of loads of newspapers along the way. Bad stories sell better than good.
I think it's rather symptomatic of the English, not completely exclusive to us though. Jealosy and envy are ugly emotions and we're quite bad losers.
And then, the web of course is completely democratic which only makes things worse!
gfm is offline  
__________________
John M
Quote
Old 1 Feb 2005, 22:31 (Ref:1215036)   #16
kdr
Veteran
 
kdr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,741
kdr should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridkdr should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
f1 is a personality driven sport...you only have to look on 10-10ths at the amount of threads on technical car related topics as opposed to the amount of "kimi is fat, jv is mental, tgf is the devil incarnate" posts. so rather than the fact that the sport has become too predictable and technologically expensive in its current form...it suits people to have a personality thats ruining everything...thats where bernie and max come in!
kdr is offline  
__________________
I want you to drive flat out
Quote
Old 2 Feb 2005, 02:08 (Ref:1215131)   #17
RWC
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location:
Qld.-australia
Posts: 2,083
RWC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Bernie and max deserve all the **** they get.
There are no excuses

Last edited by Adam43; 2 Feb 2005 at 09:07. Reason: autocensor dodge.
RWC is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Feb 2005, 02:15 (Ref:1215134)   #18
RWC
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location:
Qld.-australia
Posts: 2,083
RWC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Bernie and max deserve all the **** they get!!

The 'facts' presented by wrex only tell a tiny part of the story.There is far more to descision making than who controls the voting.
There's ALOT of politics as well-
(think max's bizzare ideas for new rule's,cancelling meetings at the last moment,'interpreting' rules in odd ways (usually in such a way as to confirm the ferrari conspiracy theories),*and the worst one ever*...holding a meeting at 3am with only favoured delegates present so as to pass the comercial rights to a single person for one hundred years.

Last edited by Adam43; 2 Feb 2005 at 09:08.
RWC is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Feb 2005, 04:13 (Ref:1215168)   #19
Skam85
Veteran
 
Skam85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Wherever the next race is
Posts: 2,812
Skam85 has a real shot at the championship!Skam85 has a real shot at the championship!Skam85 has a real shot at the championship!Skam85 has a real shot at the championship!Skam85 has a real shot at the championship!
Maybe this thread should be closed?

I think this topic has been exhausted.

Bottom line, you can't please everybody. Max and Bernie are just doing the best job they can.
Skam85 is offline  
__________________
Part time wingman, full time spud.
Quote
Old 2 Feb 2005, 05:53 (Ref:1215193)   #20
3-E
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2
3-E should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
in other forums it´s allready discussed that .....
"wings - spoilers and flippers should be banned
...safety better racing and overtaking" ..MAX Mosley !! ??
now think about why ... which comission ? who ?

just thought about all that .... they will look like
formula fords.... with wide tyres ... *smile* ...
so what ... if bernie grants therefore 30 cars ....
I can remember times when F1 did look like that ....
but they had some 20 teams - some 40 drivers - exciting races ...
and after they have lost there engines .... so what .....
- the wings have been used anyway only for sponsoring *smile* ...
http://www.beepworld.de/memberdateie...ty-conzept.jpg
3-E is offline  
__________________
...don´t forget....
...phantasie makes the world go round....
Quote
Old 2 Feb 2005, 08:31 (Ref:1215256)   #21
ASCII Man
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,979
ASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
That made sense...



Wel, not really...
ASCII Man is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Feb 2005, 14:35 (Ref:1215552)   #22
RWC
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location:
Qld.-australia
Posts: 2,083
RWC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
sorry for the semi double post above

3-E that is ,um, bizzare!

Or are you hinting that everyone is talking about how to fix f1 ....?
RWC is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Feb 2005, 16:27 (Ref:1215656)   #23
Barbazza
Racer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location:
Yorkshire, England
Posts: 104
Barbazza should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridBarbazza should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I've just posted this in another thread but it's relevent here as well. Have a look at www.fia.com for the recently added list of correspondence between the FIA and teams. It provides an interesting insight into an area of the sport which most of us can only guess at.
Barbazza is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
the blame game jj2728 Formula One 10 26 May 2004 16:22
JPm/MS 1st lap who was to blame? (merged) ralf fan Formula One 329 7 May 2004 01:23
Who is to blame? Legend Formula One 47 12 Aug 2002 15:29
Monty vs TGF: who's to blame?? Tristan Formula One 114 23 May 2001 10:02


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:32.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.