[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[JAG]

Is it feasable Lola, ORECA, Zytek and OAK/Pescarolo will carry over existing tubs until they are forced out by reg changes such as stricter crash test requirements?

With so many old chassis out in the wild there's a potentially large market for upgrading existing cars, particularly P2 were there isn't an arms race against manufactuers.

[gucom]

that's the 2nd time this weak i'm reading something on ten-tenths about different crash test requirements... but why and how do LMP1 crash standards differ from LMP2 standards?

[JAG]

I don't know if there are different requirements, I was using it as an example.

If current tubs are upto the job why wouldn't Lola and such continue to use the same basic design for the forseable future and update everything else?

In the 956/962 days Porsche must have been busy servicing and updating these cars as well as producing all new chassis for the best part of a decade.

Seems a good business model for a customer chassis manufactuer.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by gucom

that's the 2nd time this weak i'm reading something on ten-tenths about different crash test requirements... but why and how do LMP1 crash standards differ from LMP2 standards?

Because P-1s reach a higher terminal velocity and their engine/drivetrain (usually) weigh more. In an impact there is more force at the impact site and more inertia developed by the drivetrain, so higher crush rates are standard for P-1. But that does not mean that P-2 tubs will not pass P-1 testing, in fact several P-2 tubs already meet P-1 testing standards as the tub is the same in both models/chassis.



L.P.

[gucom]

thanks
I hope they don't lower the LMP1 crash standards now that the new P1 engines are basically the P2 engines of old? Seems to me the more safety the better... Also I'd hope that even P2-only chassis would be built with excess safety in mind => able to withstand P1 crash tests...

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by JAG

With so many old chassis out in the wild there's a potentially large market for upgrading existing cars, particularly P2 were there isn't an arms race against manufactuers.

That would be awsome but seems to me that the days when a private team buys a chassis and builds around him a new aero are gone.

[gustavobamba]

I honestly do not mind the name of the categories of Le Mans, but i think that despite the environmental and safety concerns, the primal category in Le Mans should comply with the long straights and not take forever to go through them.
these straights will suffer when there are cars less then 320 km/h, please do not make them suffer

[JAG]

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

That would be awsome but seems to me that the days when a private team buys a chassis and builds around him a new aero are gone.

I was thinking more along the lines of buying the manufactuers updates as RML have done with Lola.

Pretty much all of the Lola and Courage P1/P2's built in the last five years could be updated to 2011 spec.

[HORNDAWG]

Seems there is much topic for discussion in here.
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/2011ACOLMP12Version4.pdf




L.P.

[JAG]

How about you sum it up.

As far as I'm concerned it's-

-Current P2 Chassis ballasted to 900kg

-460bhp+ production engine

-No hybrid system

-LMPC can be upgraded to ORECA 03

[jc_nl]

Am i reading the rules right if i think it's only allowed to have a supercharged diesel, not a turbo charged one??? (art 5.1)

Can any of the engine guru's on here shine a light on that?

What could be the reasoning behind this?

edit,

This could be a simple printing error, as it seems the difference isn't their in the French text

[HORNDAWG]

Yes, much topic for discussion!





L.P.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by jc_nl

Am i reading the rules right if i think it's only allowed to have a supercharged diesel, not a turbo charged one??? (art 5.1)

Can any of the engine guru's on here shine a light on that?

What could be the reasoning behind this?

edit,

This could be a simple printing error, as it seems the difference isn't their in the French text

Turbos are seen in technical regulations as a form of supercharging. End of story.

[HORNDAWG]

Audi should let the R-8 V-10 LMS be raced in GT-1 and build a GT-3 (variant/model) contender with a 3.2L turbo V-6.





L.P.

[jc_nl]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Turbos are seen in technical regulations as a form of supercharging. End of story.

That was part of my confusion, in the English text they are mentioned separately (and accidentally left out at the diesel engines), where as in the French text they are not separated.

[manthey]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Audi should let the R-8 V-10 LMS be raced in GT-1 and build a GT-3 (variant/model) contender with a 3.2L turbo V-6.





L.P.

That's what I knew about future engine for roadcar line-up.maybe introduction in next generation a6 and facelifted a4 next year

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by manthey

That's what I knew about future engine for roadcar line-up.maybe introduction in next generation a6 and facelifted a4 next year

Well thats fine, but they need one in the R-8 LMS GT(3) that produces about 475 bhp. Then it would also make a fine P-2 engine!





L.P.

[littleman]

Sorry to be a little dim but I still can't grasp what to expect in 2011. Can someone tell me the following:

LMP1 (still called this?): What are the engine regs
LMP2 ditto : Ditto

GT1 (or what will it be?): Engine regs?
GT2 ditto ditto

Any other new categories I should know about?
What happens to this years cars like Audi, Peugeot, HPD ARX etc?

Thanks

[Victor_RO]

LMP1 engine regs = same as LMP2 this year, but no limit on number of cylinders for 3.4 NA engines (and, I believe, larger restrictors). LMP2 = stock engines / engines currently homologated for GT2, up to 5 liters, restrictor regulations attempt to keep about 125-150bhp difference between LMP1 and LMP2 engines.

GT1 is gone, GT-E is GT2 with the possible addition of paddleshift gearboxes and undisclosed ways of limiting straight line speed.

[littleman]

Thanks that helps.

What about diesel engines for LMP1? What's the max size for them in 2011?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by littleman

What about diesel engines for LMP1? What's the max size for them in 2011?

3700cc.

[HORNDAWG]

The general gist of it:

Originally Posted by littleman

Sorry to be a little dim but I still can't grasp what to expect in 2011. Can someone tell me the following:

LMP1 (still called this?): What are the engine regs Yes still called this, engines will be the current P-2 rules with current P-1 engines granfathered in with competition restrictions.
LMP2 ditto : Ditto What has been put forth is a cost capped class both chassis and engine with a max price target. Minimum of evolution adjustment during the year. 5.0L N/A V8 or 3.2L V6 turbo production based engines

GT1 (or what will it be?): Engine regs? No GT-1

GT2 ditto ditto GT-2 will become GTE with a Pro and Amateur classes based on the 2009 GT-2 regs with the AM class only running 1+ year old cars and restricted drivers by license type.

Any other new categories I should know about?
What happens to this years cars like Audi, Peugeot, HPD ARX etc?

Thanks

That may or may not help!




L.P.

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Audi should let the R-8 V-10 LMS be raced in GT-1 and build a GT-3 (variant/model) contender with a 3.2L turbo V-6.





L.P.

Audi already has a supercharged 3.0 V6 in the Audi S4, and the A6, and is the standard engine in the EU Spec S5. Only change I could see there is a switch from the supercharger to turbos, but then again, Audi barbecued a R8 that was fitted with the 5.0 turbo V10 out of the RS6, so I don't think that the R8 is suited for turbos, though 4.2 V8s and 5.2 V10s have been fitted with aftermarket superchargers.

Maybe the 3.0 T SC engine may power one of the proposed "baby" Audi mid engined cars.

[manthey]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Audi already has a supercharged 3.0 V6 in the Audi S4, and the A6, and is the standard engine in the EU Spec S5. Only change I could see there is a switch from the supercharger to turbos, but then again, Audi barbecued a R8 that was fitted with the 5.0 turbo V10 out of the RS6, so I don't think that the R8 is suited for turbos, though 4.2 V8s and 5.2 V10s have been fitted with aftermarket superchargers.

Maybe the 3.0 T SC engine may power one of the proposed "baby" Audi mid engined cars.

If I correctly remember I read about a 3.2 bi-turbo engine

[cmk]

Originally Posted by JAG

I don't know if there are different requirements, I was using it as an example.

If current tubs are upto the job why wouldn't Lola and such continue to use the same basic design for the forseable future and update everything else?

In the 956/962 days Porsche must have been busy servicing and updating these cars as well as producing all new chassis for the best part of a decade.

Seems a good business model for a customer chassis manufactuer.

It's worth pointing out that while some tubs had very long lives, there were a veritable plethora of 962 tubs produced under license by other manufacturers like Fabcar, Thompson, Joest, RLR etc. Porsche itself was hardly doing the work for most of those later cars, and the individual tubs were not necessarily running for a decade. Ultimately tubs get tired, and beyond that a manufacturer would certainly prefer the profit of selling new tubs when they can...