HSCC launches Historic Modsports and Saloons

[mab01UK]

The Historic Sports Car Club will run pilot races for a new Historic Modsports and Saloons category in 2022 as a lead-in to a fuller programme of races in 2023. The inaugural races will be at Cadwell Park during the Wolds Trophy meeting on 4/5 June.

The concept behind Historic Modsports and Saloons is to re-create a period of national racing history from the late 1960s and 1970s. Eligible cars will be those that comply with period MSA ‘Blue Book’ regulations and the series will be for cars as raced in period with original material bodies, engines from the original manufacturer and with a maximum of two valves per cylinder.
The plan is to attract back into racing the type of cars that packed out Modified Sports and Special Saloon grids in period. Cars with spaceframe chassis and non-original engines will not be permitted, thus ruling out the type of cars that later developed in Special Saloon racing.
Cars must be based on production sports or saloon cars (as available for sale in the UK) built before 1980. Cars must be powered by the same manufacturer’s engine that would have been in the period production road car. The regulations allow period-style changes to the engine, transmission, bodywork, brakes and suspension.
In order to keep the series in line with the cars of the period, there will be no forced induction engines, no later four-valve engines, BDA or BDG-type engines, no motorcycle engines, no sequential gearboxes, no Lotus/Caterham Seven type cars and no kit car replicas.
“There are many suitable period cars now sitting in garages with no purely historic series to race in. We want to re-create a very special time in national racing. Our ambition is a grid full of Minis, MG Midgets, Ford Anglias, Datsun 240Zs, Ford Escorts, Hillman Imps and low-volume sports cars like Ginetta G15s and Clan Crusaders, all with permitted period modifications.”
To request series regulations and/or express an interest is taking part, please contact Jasmine Walker at the HSCC.
https://hscc.org.uk/hscc-launches-hi...s-and-saloons/

[Moby]

Quite a bit of interest.

[rbs]

Originally Posted by Moby

Quite a bit of interest.

Hope it is better than the CSCC run similar series.

[Moby]

The HSCC are committed to keep it ‘historic’, based on 1970’s blue book rules. It is for Modsports and modified saloons, not Special Saloons. So original type engines, no BDG’s etc. Evrything has to be pre1980.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Moby

The HSCC are committed to keep it ‘historic’, based on 1970’s blue book rules. It is for Modsports and modified saloons, not Special Saloons. So original type engines, no BDG’s etc. Evrything has to be pre1980.

Any chance of 'Blackbrick' or Radbourne X1/9?

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Any chance of 'Blackbrick' or Radbourne X1/9?

Depends how many of each are available I guess

[GCCheddaris]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Any chance of 'Blackbrick' or Radbourne X1/9?

No chance of Black Brick as Lotus/Caterham 7s are not allowed and if you could find one I guess the Radbourne X1/9 would be allowed although I think it ran in Modsports after the cut off date (31/12/79).

[E.B]

Originally Posted by GCCheddaris

No chance of Black Brick as Lotus/Caterham 7s are not allowed and if you could find one I guess the Radbourne X1/9 would be allowed although I think it ran in Modsports after the cut off date (31/12/79).

Soper raced the X1//9 in Modsports from 1980 according to his biography

In 1980 he ambitiously entered two championships, the Ford Fiesta Challenge and, driving a Radbourne Fiat X/19, the STP Modified Sports Championship. He occasionally used a helicopter to fly between circuits to fit two races into one day. It was worth while as he won both series.

http://www.historicracing.com/driver...?driverID=7589

However I noticed on RSC that he entered a Radbourne X1/9 Dallara at the Silverstone 6 hours in May 1979, (car #53) but DNA'd.
https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...979-05-06.html

[David CSCC]

Originally Posted by rbs

Hope it is better than the CSCC run similar series.

??

[GCCheddaris]

Originally Posted by E.B

Soper raced the X1//9 in Modsports from 1980 according to his biography

http://www.historicracing.com/driver...?driverID=7589



However I noticed on RSC that he entered a Radbourne X1/9 Dallara at the Silverstone 6 hours in May 1979, (car #53) but DNA'd.
https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...979-05-06.html

I can remember a very wet early March meeting at Thruxton in about 1981 which featured a great scrap between Soper and his little X1/9 and Rob Cox Allison and I think the original Black Brick. Lap after lap Cox Allison came through teetering right on the limit of adhesion holding off Soper's more manageable Fiat. Unfortunately for Rob on the last lap his balancing act came to an end and he ended up spinning and entering the pit lane backwards ! Hopefully the new series can provide as much entertainment.

[zefarelly]

The countries flooded with modsports saloons.

Soper has a Cortina ready to go.

[Cliff Ryan]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

The countries flooded with modsports saloons.

Soper has a Cortina ready to go.

[Moby]

Any chance of 'Blackbrick' or Radbourne X1/9?

Blackbrick no, X1/9 yes!

[zefarelly]

found this . . . some references on a 17 year old thread on here somewhere!

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

found this . . . some references on a 17 year old thread on here somewhere!

Yep. Should suit the new series.

[Peter Mallett]

So, if I've got this right, when they say the engine must be that of the make, they don't mean make and model, hence Dr Merfield's Cortina. So what alternative did the Imps use?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

So, if I've got this right, when they say the engine must be that of the make, they don't mean make and model, hence Dr Merfield's Cortina. So what alternative did the Imps use?

I would guess that they would use the original type engines used during those times which used to be very effective, especially when racing in the up to 1000cc class. And at tracks like the Brands Indy circuit and Mallory, they could also be giant killers in the right hands, like Tony Lanfranchi.

However, I am confused because back then, a lot of us raced Anglias with pre-crossflow engines based on the Cortina GT engine (of which the best blocks were cherry picked for the Lotus twinkies) which had 5 main bearings as opposed to the 3 for a 1200cc road going Anglia. But according to the blurb, one can't do that now.

I would also assume that cars like Gordon's screamer wouldn't be eligible either?

[Peter Mallett]

I've requested a copy of the regs.

[Peter Mallett]

Here you go, so a V8 Cortina won't comply.



Copied from the regs.

The engine type must be the same type and manufacturer as in the production model available before 31.12.1979.

5.7.2 Permitted Modifications:

An iron block or head may not be replaced with an aluminium block or head.

Cylinder Block: The block must be from the same manufacturer; the same engine family and must be of the same material. Internals are free.

Cylinder Head: Must be no more than 2 valves per cylinder, and either an original item, or be from a recognised after-market manufacturer from period e.g. Cosworth, Broadspeed, Holbay, etc. Modifications are free but the cylinder head must be the same material as the original.

Period downdraught heads are permitted.

A period reverse flow (non cross-flow) cylinder head must not be replaced with a cross-flow cylinder head, unless there is evidence that this was actually replaced in period on this car.

Engine internals are free. Dry sump systems are permitted.

[zefarelly]

Gordons car still runs a Kent engine

HRSR engine specs sound close

There's a BD powered Anglia about . . . . It's predecessor turned out to be the only surviving GP5 Broadspeed car and has been restored, (with 1200 DD engine)

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

Gordons car still runs a Kent engine

HRSR engine specs sound close

There's a BD powered Anglia about . . . . It's predecessor turned out to be the only surviving GP5 Broadspeed car and has been restored, (with 1200 DD engine)

Yes, now that Peter has posted above, Gordon's engine would be permitted, but reading their press release, it would seem as though BDAs, etc. don't meet the criteria.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Yes, now that Peter has posted above, Gordon's engine would be permitted, but reading their press release, it would seem as though BDAs, etc. don't meet the criteria.

Yes that is spelled out in the regs, I just didn't copy it. Not entirely certain but a Mk 2 group 2 Capri may well fit with triple webers since that was an "X pack" option for the road car in the late 70s. Hmmm I believe I have a spare Capri somewhere.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Yes that is spelled out in the regs, I just didn't copy it. Not entirely certain but a Mk 2 group 2 Capri may well fit with triple webers since that was an "X pack" option for the road car in the late 70s. Hmmm I believe I have a spare Capri somewhere.

If the bar-stewards who stole my Anglia and trailer (in about 1974) would be kind enough to return it to me, it could also come out to play!

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

Gordons car still runs a Kent engine

HRSR engine specs sound close

There's a BD powered Anglia about . . . . It's predecessor turned out to be the only surviving GP5 Broadspeed car and has been restored, (with 1200 DD engine)

Just to get things in perspective, the engine that I used was a crossflow headed 1500cc 5 bearing screamer that was allowed when I was contesting the ICS series and it cost me and my sponsors a serious amount of money at the time (although most of the cost was for reliabillity) They allowed it after it was realized that it wouldn't be competitive against a large engined Mini. There wasn't (at the time) a minimum weight limit and we managed to get the Anglia down to 680 kilos wheras a Mini could be 500 kilos or less and depending on how the rules were interpretated especially in the "grey areas" ! Power outputs at the time for mine depending on what spec cam and carbs I was running at different tracks was up to 180 BHP and the Minis A series 150 plus ?.
A 1200 cc Anglia unfortunately isn't competitive against a well sorted Mini as long as the drivers are as good as one another and both cars comply to the rules in the series, simply because of the weight difference and the Minis amazing handling from standard

[S griffin]

That sounds a real powerful beast Gordon, no wonder it cost a lot. But at least your ingenuity could help get it competitive, especially against those pesky Minis. Better to take a gamble on a new more powerful engine than have an uncompetitive lesser powered engine in it. Hope you got your money's worth out of it