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Old 17 Oct 2022, 08:30 (Ref:4130565)   #16
S griffin
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S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
I think a world cup like they did with Super Touring in the mid 90s might be the best way to go. It's clear WTCR needs a miracle to keep going as a championship
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Old 18 Oct 2022, 07:42 (Ref:4130672)   #17
iceman-1987
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iceman-1987 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
this is the consequence of the hypocrisy that wtcr promoters continued to repeat everyone about the fact that it was a champions without entrance of manufucatures... when it was clear that it was not like that

another big bull**it is the BOP! Is there BOP in f1? is there BOP in wrc? there is just in WEC/GT and it has sense because every manufacture who compete there bring a different type of engine!

i always said that we must let enter manufacture officially in this serie! it's a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP so it's normal that we must have official cars, teams and drivers and ofc also private team and drivers!

as Coronel said why if he has a DNF and another driver with the same his car win the race the following round all drivers of the same car must be penalized with extra kg or by BOP???

Maybe i make things to easy but in my opinion this is how things HAD TO BE DONE:
1 allow entrance to manufactures official without a limit of cars with a minimum of two cars
2 organize 2/3 sessions of test where all teams and driver partecipates! NO PRIVATE TEST for anyone! all manufactures, team and drivers must have same possibility to develop the car
3 no BOP but a weight compensation for the top 5 drivers in each race (25kg - 20 - 15 - 10 - 5), the extra weight will be add in the following round!
4 stop of those S**T of races inside city! they are BORING, NOT spectacular at all and most important in case of crash it would cost lots money to repair them!
5 Bring the championship where there is passion for these type of races! 2 rounds in south america (brazil and argentina) in the opening season, 6 rounds in europe and finish the season in asia with 3 rounds in Japan, China and Macau (i'm not such a big fan of this street circuit but let's say that it can be considered the Montecarlo of Touring cars)
6 one qualify session of 30 minutes. the top 10 drivers will compete for the Pole Position! one single lap for each drivers and 2 points given for the driver who make pole.
7 two races on sunday of 75km one in the morning and one in the afternoon to allow team to repair cars in case of damage or engine problems.
8 all manufactures must sign a multiple years of contract (from 2 to 3 years) to partecipation to the championship.

this would be my idea of a world touring car championship!
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Old 18 Oct 2022, 07:55 (Ref:4130675)   #18
GusGasfuss
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I believe, Touring car world championships are a problem since the 80s.
Even with Grp. A it was a big political thing, and of course Touring cars are different around the world (America, Australia, Europe), so there can't be a match.


In a way, the Super Touring approach of the mid 90s was closest to a real world-wide series, because even in USA/AUS there were these cars on sale for street use. TCR base cars are mainly made for Europe/Asia, some brands even don't sell in USA/AUS.


European Championship might be the biggest possible approach, but even then you need different budgets regarding your origin (scandinavian racers need to travel more for mainly south-european races).


I think it is a good idea, to count a world-ranking based on local series. If it will work, is something to test.

Maybe it will be a good way, to bring more cars in local TCR-series, if you can earn points even there.
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Old 18 Oct 2022, 14:08 (Ref:4130726)   #19
S griffin
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The 1987 WTCC could have worked, if they hadn't let Bernie get involved with it. It was clear he only cared about F1, so it was obvious he was only there to screw the championship

It's true though that the main problem is so many tin top series run to different regs and not every country has TCR as the main Touring car championship. Like with Britain, Australia and until recently, Germany
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Old 18 Oct 2022, 17:15 (Ref:4130747)   #20
TuteZaek
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Originally Posted by GusGasfuss View Post
Maybe it will be a good way, to bring more cars in local TCR-series, if you can earn points even there.
I don't know why, but this sounds, to me, as the ATP circuit on tennis.... and is kinda interesting.

Points awarded for different races, and a final race with the top scorers at the end of the season.
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Old 21 Oct 2022, 06:47 (Ref:4130940)   #21
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The 1987 WTCC could have worked, if they hadn't let Bernie get involved with it. It was clear he only cared about F1, so it was obvious he was only there to screw the championship

It's true though that the main problem is so many tin top series run to different regs and not every country has TCR as the main Touring car championship. Like with Britain, Australia and until recently, Germany

I don't think so. Normal aspirated 2,3l BMW against 2.0l Turbocharged Ford and 1,8l Turbocharged Alfas - there is always the need for BOP throught weight and air-restriction. No one will ever be happy with it.



I still believe the 2.0l Super Touring was most equal, except of different driven axles...
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Old 21 Oct 2022, 08:44 (Ref:4130949)   #22
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The ETCC worked for a long time. There's no reason why the original WTCC couldn't have worked, if only for a bit if it had been managed properly
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Old 21 Oct 2022, 14:26 (Ref:4130994)   #23
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Yeah ETCC was around for nearly a quarter of a century, then Bernie came along and international touring car racing was dead within the span of 2 years.

I am intrigued by this new World Tour format. Seems similar to the old European Rally Championship.

Last edited by pimmy; 21 Oct 2022 at 14:31.
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Old 22 Oct 2022, 13:29 (Ref:4131070)   #24
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Sodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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The ETCC worked for a long time. There's no reason why the original WTCC couldn't have worked, if only for a bit if it had been managed properly
I think the FIA together with SEAT effectively killed the WTCC after the TDi debacle.
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Old 22 Oct 2022, 16:26 (Ref:4131080)   #25
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Yeah ETCC was around for nearly a quarter of a century, then Bernie came along and international touring car racing was dead within the span of 2 years.
Bernie was the Grim Reaper of good Motorsport, as Group C WSC had same fate and later the DTM/ ITC and to a degree BPR Global GT when it was transformed into FIA GT as the FIA took control and made everything worse
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Old 22 Oct 2022, 16:26 (Ref:4131081)   #26
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I think the FIA together with SEAT effectively killed the WTCC after the TDi debacle.
and the 2009 crisis, the championship was never the same again
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Old 22 Oct 2022, 16:54 (Ref:4131084)   #27
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and the 2009 crisis, the championship was never the same again
What happened in 2009?
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Old 22 Oct 2022, 17:02 (Ref:4131086)   #28
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At the end of 2009 SEAT & LADA pulled out and BMW downsized their entry to 2 cars.
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Old 22 Oct 2022, 18:06 (Ref:4131092)   #29
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I like this idea known as the TCR World Tour. 9 events that will race in new locations as well as across Europe.

It offers a chance for existing and new teams to take part, with a Final set across 4 days & 60 drivers
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Old 24 Oct 2022, 07:25 (Ref:4131263)   #30
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I think, these "crisis" is always evident, as manufacturers always try to get their advantages over the competition...


See Ford with turbocharged Sierras, see Audi with all-wheel-drive, see Seat with TDI etc.

Of course, technology is changing and a manufacturer tries to show his engineering or his wealth.


I don't know, how much Lynk&Co. has spent for WTCR with all these high-profile-drivers and maybe most advanced technology? That was not cheap, and understandable, that they don't want to loose because of tyres they can't use fully. Or other things, they make them slower.
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