Msa ?

Nighthawk · 19 Jan 2004, 22:28 (Ref:843245)

Well like most of us I have seen this new form,I filed it in bin....
was at Autosport Show this Alen Dean Lewis chap when i asked him about the new licences and grading just stuck his nose in the air and walked away.

Well maybe its time i went fishing instead of race marshall weekends......

its about time we were better looked after...maybe i will become a Rally Marshall they do exist according to MSA site we dont

Come on lads its about time we stood our ground and work together to get something done

Nighthawk

ss_collins · 19 Jan 2004, 23:02 (Ref:843283)

I'm a registered and graded rally marshal - but don't exist for speed events?

Garry Holmes · 20 Jan 2004, 08:40 (Ref:843659)

The Rally Scheme is as big a farce as the the Race Scheme. It was only brought in as a reaction to the Carlos & Cambrian accidents to appease the HSE / Insurance Companies.

Alan Green · 20 Jan 2004, 13:12 (Ref:843994)

On the subject of rally licences, i was told at the weekend that the 2004 rally licences will be going out in the next couple of weeks.

Nighthawk, You're not alone at being fed up with the MSA, but don't get the rods & reels out just yet! There is no need to even think about them during the season. Volunteer for the meetings you want to do, turn up and enjoy yourself. The 'sign a stupid piece of paper' process seems to have been as badly recieved as it was thought out.

Al.

Nighthawk · 20 Jan 2004, 19:40 (Ref:844446)

Just letting of steam....
But this Licence and stupid form process really kicks to those of us who take the marshalling seriously.
I,m gonna carry on.
Oh Can anyone confirm the SCV8 dates for Combe ?

Alan Green · 20 Jan 2004, 20:53 (Ref:844530)

18th July according to the SCV8 site, but that date hasn't been on any of the volunteering forms i've seen so far this year. Looking at their other dates, I'm expecting some shuffles as there are clashes with published dates that I don't expect to happen (date clash with HSCC at Snet. for example). Not wanting to go too far OT but I'm still not sure if we'll see them at all this year, IMO.

Al.

**Stephen Green** · 20 Jan 2004, 21:29 (Ref:844594)

Ok there are two different things here. Your licence is issued by the MSA and is your passport to marshalling. All marshals will be licenced as are drivers and personally I think thats a good idea. As for the form, why not wait and see what comments are made by the BMMC, BARC, BRDC and BRSCC before blowing a fuse.

Whulst the form may not be to everyones liking I understand it was done with our best intentions in mind so lets back off for a minute and allow the various clubs to sort the problem out.

Tony_J · 20 Jan 2004, 21:38 (Ref:844618)

Stephen perhaps the MSA should have taken advice from the clubs before jumping in with both feet. The tenor and format of the form is badly worded and constructed. It seems to me that as usual the MSA blithely carry on without consultation a sure receipe for dissatisfaction. I suspect that those contributing to the forum are only a relatively small proportion of the marshalling fraternity. I guess that many of the 'silent majority' feel as some of us do - ie. we are being treated like mushrooms -c covered in ****.

**Woolley** · 21 Jan 2004, 00:13 (Ref:844796)

Licences are in the MSA wallet, form is in the bin. I may actually get some attendance signatures this year, though, haven't bothered before, but one day someone's going to ask fo it...

**Stephen Green** · 21 Jan 2004, 08:02 (Ref:845089)

Tony,

I can understand how you feel but it is my understanding that the various clubs are looking into the matter and therefore I was suggesting we ease off for the time being until they have had a chance to speak to the MSA.

Alan Green · 21 Jan 2004, 10:57 (Ref:845262)

To get away from the form issue a bit further...

MSA Rally marshals licence turned up this morning and will be valid for two years, rather than the one year on race licences. That would make sense if you had to get twice as many attendance signatures, but you still only need five attendance/satisfactory performance signatures in two years plus two training sessions covering advanced incident handling or event planning to upgrade (thats for me going grade 2 to grade 1, I guess the grade 3 to 2 will be almost the same with different training courses).

However, to upgrade (2 to 1) you need to spend a day as deputy stage commander or deputy event safety officer, and get a letter from a Rally Clerk of Course to submit with your card. The instructions from the MSA say that there are 6000 rally marshals registered now. If 2000 of those want to upgrade from grade 2 to 1, when are they going to get a chance to have a go at these higher grades? There aren't that many rallies during a year (I don't think) where the organising clubs won't already have the senior manning already set up as part of the planning process which starts months before an event.

I understand and appreciate the need for the rally marshals register, as much as I do the race marshals register, but I can see that there will be a lot of rally marshals stuck at the middle grade, because they can't get the opportunity to have a go at the senior positions. So you end up with the same situation we are getting on the crcuits with (and I'll put this carefully) older marshals at the higher levels, and no-one coming through the ranks to join them. And then of course you get into the situation, can't upgrade, get fed up with the organisation (not the sport), don't renew registration, number of registered marshals drops, MSA panics.

Perhaps having to 'shadow' the D.Stage Commander or D.Safety officer for two or three rallies may have been a better way of learning what the job entails, rather than having to do it once without fully understanding it.

Oh, and the rally licence didn't have the form enclosed.

Al.

imull · 21 Jan 2004, 11:52 (Ref:845320)

The Rally Marshal scheme is a complete and utter joke.

I got my grade 2 licence through when they originally came out as at the time (though I was eligable for grade 1) I didnt think i had enough experience for grade 1.

I stood in muudy puddles in sh*tty weather in a welsh forest, scottish mountain etc to get my signitures. forgot my licence and had to really speed to get to signing on on time etc. I collected as many sigs as possible (31 in the 15months or so so that i could upgrade.

It became academic when i missed the training sessions but I am glad I am glad i bothered now that we are getting them sent out as a matter of course rather than returning them to the MSA for vetting. By doing the minimum number of events as a marshal, imho, the average person gets nowhere near enough experience to deal with a serious accident.

My housemate was unlucky enough to be involved in a fatal accident at a rally last year and he quite openly said that the way he healt with the incident was down to a lot of years experience on the way rallies work and rolling cars back out of ditches etc. 5 events isnt enough...

The satisfactory marshalling bit is a joke too. Almost every rally I have been on, I get the card signed at signing on as there is no way I am going to travel WD through a stage with 1001 Colin McRaes leaving or am i going to sit and wait for asenior offical to appear.

As one event organiser has put elswhere: Got my marshals licence through. signed off for the same events last year and put it away...

JimW · 21 Jan 2004, 12:08 (Ref:845336)

Quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Green
I can understand how you feel but it is my understanding that the various clubs are looking into the matter and therefore I was suggesting we ease off for the time being until they have had a chance to speak to the MSA.

For once I disagree with you Stephen. I think it is essential to leave the Clubs in no doubt that this badly thought-out and poorly implemented paper shuffling exercise will not work and will not be tolerated by the "workers" no matter how much the MSA want it.

So the only question is how that message is conveyed.

Sorry

Jim

Nighthawk · 21 Jan 2004, 20:25 (Ref:845844)

Ok Is there someone we can ring or e-mail or even write to at the MSA....
Now theres a hard One....
Keep looking at there site...nothing even rang and got through to some young female ,I dont think she even understood me gave up..........

**Stephen Green** · 21 Jan 2004, 21:10 (Ref:845886)

Why not wait a few weeks and see what happens with regard the organising clubs and BMMC as I feel sure there will be some communication that will explain matters more fully. If then you are not happy then maybe it's time to reassess, but give the guys a chance. After all the season hasn't started yet!

theracegypsy · 21 Jan 2004, 21:43 (Ref:845929)

I have to agree with Stephen, we should calm it down and let your club know your concerns.

Firstly just remeber the wording on the form is virtuyally the same as that we sign every meeting )and never bother to read).

We know the rules they are talking about if we are graded higher than trainee, and get updates either at training days or briefings on race day, either from a chief direct or via your observer.

The main gripe which I have heard, both on this forum and talking to others, is that the MSA want you to buy the rule book, and won't just givwe you one!

Once you have your licence you are fine for the year, just remember in most other countries you have to produce your licence at sign on, will get refused if you don't have it, and have to sign a decliration in fron of a witness.

Nighthawk · 21 Jan 2004, 23:49 (Ref:846123)

well I think my licence has gone to my old address so no licence for me this year i did inform them of change of address back in september along with upgrade card my mate done so at same time but his licence had no upgrade applied.
So no licence this mean i not to marshall...(oops)

**Stephen Green** · 22 Jan 2004, 08:05 (Ref:846475)

Nighthawk, without sounding rude, have you bothered to ring the MSA and ask if your licence has gone to your old address and, to ask if they would issue you with another or duplicate? I would also point out that you are able to marshal without having to produce your licence.

Give the MSA a call and check your address. They don't bite you know

Nighthawk · 22 Jan 2004, 18:05 (Ref:847213)

Well I rang the MSA this morning. after finally getting through to the righr person was told there records are out of date and my licence went to my old address (oh well)
as for the upgrade and change of address i put in last september they have not received.
Told must get my club to sort it all out i get the feeling that the MSA did not want to know or help me in this matter like i said we as marshalls are treated as second rate.

imull · 22 Jan 2004, 18:08 (Ref:847220)

we got the nose in the air reaction when I talked to the woman on the MSA stand about the rally marshals licence at the autosport show...

not sure about racing but at the moment, unless you want to be treated like plebs on the Wales Rally GB then there isnt much point having one.

sss · 22 Jan 2004, 18:37 (Ref:847257)

why worry, soon we will be unemployed volunteers as the msa will use circuit provided paid marshals, problem solved.

Nighthawk · 2 Feb 2004, 11:46 (Ref:859953)

paid marshalls ...it will never happen.
The MSA could not organize it for 1

**Stephen Green** · 2 Feb 2004, 11:54 (Ref:859961)

Can I just say that the MSA don't employ marshals at all. If marshals are to be paid then it would be the organising club or circuit owner who would pay.

It is also the responsibility of your primary club to sort out your grading, not the MSA sorry.