Where are the Rallycross drivers?

[GM!]

After reading the posts regarding Rallycross in Holland I can't help thinking we are rapidly heading the same way in the UK. With Knockhill about 2 weeks off and despite many drivers saving they would be entering, the confirmed entry list is pityfully small! Putting all 'differences' aside, this event doesn't clash with anything and is a good opportunity for a great days rallycrossing.

We all talk with enthusiasm about where we could establish new circuits, how the rules could be altered to create more interest, etc. but you can't force drivers to enter no matter what you put in front of them. I don't think it's just about distance or clashing events, I think there is simply a general apathy, perhaps caused in part by the current economic climate and drivers 'taking sides'. There was a time when drivers would enter just about abything going, but not today but seems.

The real problem is that unless entries start to improve then Rallycross in the UK will rapidly fizzle out as it has done in the past. Would a new circuit really attract a good entry? How many will turn up at remaining events this year? How many Rallycross cars are there really out there - hardly enough to make an event viable by the looks of it!

I'm concerned for Rallycross as a whole and I hope the above comments aren't taken the wrong way. I'm interested in how you all see it. Use it or loose it seems very appropriate at the moment - any one else think the same?

[BertMk2]

To some extent I agree - in the current climate running multiple separate championships competing for a smallish group of drivers results in under subscribed meetings. But it's not just rallycross seeing smaller grids, a number of previously well supported circuit racing championships have seen entries drop this season - some drivers aren't out at all and others are running a more restricted selection of events. I can't see that changing any time soon.

To be honest the situation in rallycross isn't a surprise really is it? It's been on the cards for a couple of years.

Regarding circuits - I live in Kent. Within 2 1/2 hours of here are Lydden, Brands Hatch, Snetterton, Thruxton and Silverstone. So south east based circuit racers are well catered for - rallycrossers only have Lydden in the same catchment area. That alone means that anyone competing in rallycross is going to have to travel a lot further (costing more) and spend more time off work travelling to and from events (costing more). Even at the "lowest level" rallycross is a national championship and has the associated cost - there is no option for a regional championship as the circuits are widely spread across the country.

[daz2202]

Its all about money.

And yes as bert says in kent we have lots of tracks locally, but only Lydden for rallycross.

Cost is definatly a big issue, as at the moment I could enter a rallycross meeting for £190 + traveling etc etc for 3 heats and a final (approx 17minutes of track time) OR i can do a track day at Lydden for £150 with 6 x 15minute sessions OR go to Brands for an 9 am till 4.30pm open pit track day for £170.

Ok the racing at the rallycross meeting is far more fun but pound for minute at the moment there is no contest

[StockHatch782]

I agree with you both, Bert and Daz. There have been a few high-profile rallies cancelled recently due to lack of entries; this from a sport that has a far greater competitor base than ours and a lot more choice of rallies within a given location (except Kent, funnily enough). Lots of people are really struggling at the moment and, although I think organisers are responding to that well, there's only so much they can do to encourage us to keep racing.

Personally I don't need any encouragement due to being entirely obsessed with the sport (I've just had a fairly heated discussion with my girlfriend about whether we might cancel our holiday in order for me to finish the season. Top Tip: don't try that at home), but I know there are people for whom rallycross comes slightly lower down the list of priorities and unfortunately it's often the first thing to suffer when belts get tightened. I do think it's not currently viable to run more than one national rallycross championship, which I don't think helps, but it looks as though we've reached a situation where that's unlikely to change for the time being.

[:) RallyX]

Originally Posted by GM!

After reading the posts regarding Rallycross in Holland I can't help thinking we are rapidly heading the same way in the UK. With Knockhill about 2 weeks off and despite many drivers saving they would be entering, the confirmed entry list is pityfully small! Putting all 'differences' aside, this event doesn't clash with anything and is a good opportunity for a great days rallycrossing.

We all talk with enthusiasm about where we could establish new circuits, how the rules could be altered to create more interest, etc. but you can't force drivers to enter no matter what you put in front of them. I don't think it's just about distance or clashing events, I think there is simply a general apathy, perhaps caused in part by the current economic climate and drivers 'taking sides'. There was a time when drivers would enter just about abything going, but not today but seems.

The real problem is that unless entries start to improve then Rallycross in the UK will rapidly fizzle out as it has done in the past. Would a new circuit really attract a good entry? How many will turn up at remaining events this year? How many Rallycross cars are there really out there - hardly enough to make an event viable by the looks of it!

I'm concerned for Rallycross as a whole and I hope the above comments aren't taken the wrong way. I'm interested in how you all see it. Use it or loose it seems very appropriate at the moment - any one else think the same?

We have no problems with entries for events and drivers are as enthusiastic as ever!.. I am very positive about the future of Rallycross.

[chasing cars]

With the BRC getting stronger,the uk now having a ERC round,an English driver winning a euro rnd and a good relationship with Belgium I would say we have little in common with the way Dutch rallycross is going.

It is enevitable that in the current climate drivers are going to be more choosy over where they race. I dont think most drivers are taking sides,they are competing in what they feel is a stronger championship than one that only has rounds in scotland & ireland and has long suffered with small entries. But that is not to say the BRC is perfect, with some classes still low on numbers particually the case at knockhill & they need to do more to bring new drivers into the sport & to keep them.

[A Sport Racing]

I am still here and competing in the BTRDA championship, I will not be at knochill as i have the budget to run in 1 championship and as the BTRDA had more to offer me this year that is where i am and will be staying for the rest of 2010.Hopefully a few more drivers will answer your question Bill, Having recently competed in Belgium and been present at all BTRDA/British rounds this year i would say that british rally x is certainly on the way up .. Johny Bean

[A20 YBP]

Originally Posted by daz2202

Its all about money.

As above, we are already committed to Mallory the following week therefore an additional £180 ish entry fee plus £120 Diesel bill even without any other costs is unaffordable to us. An event per month is ok but two within a week is out of reach of most clubmen.

[chunder]

Dont really need sarcastic posts from rivals, its the main reason why the whole thing is such a shambles and why I as a fan will not support any UK championships. Tv deal or not, that is not the be all and end all. Championships need quality and neitehr for me have that.

A few Supercars is fair enough as money is tight, but a lot of the remaining stuff is cobbled together, poorly supported and rather dul to watch.

I realise this is not entertainment, but radical things need to be done. I would rather travel to Scandinavia and watch rallycross if money was no object, or even Belgium/Holland.

[BOY BLUNDER]

Well chunder your never happy are you,maybe you should go to scandinavia and stay there.

BB....

[StockHatch782]

Originally Posted by BOY BLUNDER

Well chunder your never happy are you,maybe you should go to scandinavia and stay there.

Quality!

[Chessmsport]

Originally Posted by BOY BLUNDER

Well chunder your never happy are you,maybe you should go to scandinavia and stay there.

BB....

That has to be post of the year........problem is he can still whinge in Scandanavia...................

[Chessmsport]

Originally Posted by GM!

After reading the posts regarding Rallycross in Holland I can't help thinking we are rapidly heading the same way in the UK. With Knockhill about 2 weeks off and despite many drivers saving they would be entering, the confirmed entry list is pityfully small! Putting all 'differences' aside, this event doesn't clash with anything and is a good opportunity for a great days rallycrossing.

We all talk with enthusiasm about where we could establish new circuits, how the rules could be altered to create more interest, etc. but you can't force drivers to enter no matter what you put in front of them. I don't think it's just about distance or clashing events, I think there is simply a general apathy, perhaps caused in part by the current economic climate and drivers 'taking sides'. There was a time when drivers would enter just about abything going, but not today but seems.

The real problem is that unless entries start to improve then Rallycross in the UK will rapidly fizzle out as it has done in the past. Would a new circuit really attract a good entry? How many will turn up at remaining events this year? How many Rallycross cars are there really out there - hardly enough to make an event viable by the looks of it!

I'm concerned for Rallycross as a whole and I hope the above comments aren't taken the wrong way. I'm interested in how you all see it. Use it or loose it seems very appropriate at the moment - any one else think the same?

Well i think one championship is doing well, considering we are in the middle of a recession and the number of competitors is spread thinly across 4 championships, the sooner we are back to one championship the better.

[daz2202]

Originally Posted by chunder

Dont really need sarcastic posts from rivals, its the main reason why the whole thing is such a shambles and why I as a fan will not support any UK championships. Tv deal or not, that is not the be all and end all. Championships need quality and neitehr for me have that.

A few Supercars is fair enough as money is tight, but a lot of the remaining stuff is cobbled together, poorly supported and rather dul to watch.

I realise this is not entertainment, but radical things need to be done. I would rather travel to Scandinavia and watch rallycross if money was no object, or even Belgium/Holland.

Chunder, maybe you should invest in a new scalectrics set or something, you could build a grandstand, record it on your camcorder and maybe your mum or your children could come and tell you how well you have done.

Cos lets face it all the while there is a whole in your ar5e you are gonna just moan about what everyone else is doing or does.

Maybe you should arrange a meet up with Mr 'I can't believe it' Meldrew as i reckon you would become best of buddies.

[GM!]

Originally Posted by Chessmsport

Well i think one championship is doing well, considering we are in the middle of a recession and the number of competitors is spread thinly across 4 championships, the sooner we are back to one championship the better.

I totally agree that some are doing better than others, plus that these days drivers have to budget, as very well put by Johny Bean. However, I was thinking back to the days when one event could count towards a number of championships - there were considerably more events per year but more drivers, so entry wasn't too thin. We talk about encouraging new blood into the sport but I 'm thinking along the lines of how many drivers at the moment (old and new) are prepared to put money into a car that will only be used a handfull of times in a year? Yes, same goes for Rallying, etc, we are not alone.

However, it isn't all doom and gloom. Out of all this we seem to have a very well supported activity - Chunder baiting! Could there be a championship in this?

(Really sorry Chunder, but the posts did make me smile)

[AndyS]

Was going to stay off this thread, but I thought somebody ought to get it back on subject!

I think the main problem is money at present, just about every form of motorsport I follow is suffering from low entries. It's a sign of the times with people's personal finance's and those of potential sponsors being severly restricted. Knockhill has always found it harder to attract entries so add that in to the Open only running in Ireland and Scotland this year and the lack of finance available and it's not hard to see why.

I don't think there's a lack of competitors, I just think a lot haven't got the budget. I think another post earlier in the year pointed out how expensive it had become to be competitive in Super Modified. I can think of a few drivers that aren't running at all at the moment and quite a few cars that are dormant.

It's going to be quite a while before the finance is there again, so it's a question of making the best of it. As it stands now there needs to either be one championship or at least joint events. I'd rather not see one batter the other into submission but everybody come together. This seems unlikely though as we continue to see the championships drifting further apart.

Drivers and spectators are unfortunately powerless to do anything about this situation and it's down to the powers that be to sort it out. The ROC, BRC and BTRDA have all bought something to the table in recent years and rallycross is the better for it. I think the sport is stronger than it was in the recent past but there's still a lot more that could be done.

[MESHGA]

Originally Posted by AndyS

Was going to stay off this thread, but I thought somebody ought to get it back on subject!

I'd rather not see one batter the other into submission .

That seams to allready happened ..


Drivers and spectators are unfortunately powerless to do anything about this situation .

True! its because money talks and those with it have the only say be it right or not its life .

[chunder]

Lol you guys make me chuckle, so easy!!

Same old insults from same old people.

I don't give the slightest millisecond what any of you think of what I say. This is a forum and love it or hate it I will try and stir up you people when I can.

The championships in this country are poorly supported becasie they have been unnecessarily diluted by a few people wanting their slice of pie. I am a lifelong fan of the sport and am simple amazed at how mismanaged the while thing has been ni recent years, that's a simple reason for my posts.


Fact two, series in Benelux and Scandinavia don't see the need to chop and change their format and championships too much, meaning there is always a healthy amount of cars running and the continuity in rules means non dilution of the car base. They don't mind using old cars as there is a huge spares and tuning industry.

Fact 3: TV isn't the holy grail. I would be interested to know from anyone who has made any progress from rallycross being on tv. I am talking about clubbies here. I imagine a few people have got deals from local sponsors from being on telly, but what I mean is has the coverage really benefitted the sport? Do people go and watch the Ford XR challenge coz it's on Motors? Do people go and watch Legends racing coz it's on Motors? Do people start to watch Irish rallying etc etc. Awareness is fine, but there has to be a return surely?

Finally, from someone who speaks his mind, I notice most of the berks who are rude come from the South. Figures really, being a Northerner at heart. Classy that. I don't like being here anymore than you love it but needs must so ner!

[StockHatch782]

Originally Posted by chunder

I would be interested to know from anyone who has made any progress from rallycross being on tv. I am talking about clubbies here. I imagine a few people have got deals from local sponsors from being on telly, but what I mean is has the coverage really benefitted the sport?

Surely you're too daft to see that if a few people get deals from local sponsors, as you so casually put it, that means they can go and race and support the sport? In that way people can race full championships or move to a better car or a higher class. You can't also honestly think that the organisers want TV coverage just so they can have more spectators at the next round? It's a nice side effect and part of the increasing profile of a sport, but there are far more pressing commercial reasons for wanting TV coverage.

You seem to think that spectators are the lifeblood of the sport, but they're not. The drivers love them being there, the circuits want them in for the gate money, bigger crowds look better on the TV and it's a great atmosphere when we go and watch, but without them the sport would continue regardless, in much the same way as rallying does without much of a paying spectator base. This is why, having spoken to several drivers over the last few days about this, I can say with some confidence that numbers are low because people are struggling to find the money, not because of anything to do with championship organisation.

This is also why, although the organisers do sometimes look at these forums, it isn't really worth trying to wind people up for the sake of putting across your opinion; you can't think, surely, that they will read our posts and think 'oh, bugger, Chunder's got a point there, that's what we were doing wrong'? (Also, there are many other levels on which it's not worth winding people up, most of which involve comments on the bitter, desolate emptiness of your social life and which I will therefore not get into.)

P.S. Your 'Facts' aren't facts, they're opinions. Just in case you were confused between the two, which it seems you are.

[MESHGA]

This place dont change does it!!!!!

Tv is good for only 1 reason people who cant or wont go to the event can watch it! other than that its crap!
Saying Rallycross doesnt need specs is so out of touch to! Even with a few through the gate it makes the track hire easier , can just hear the moans about 300 quid entries now if it was ni on a closed event.
Like it or not very low starter classes are whats needed to get even well known drivers racing again.
many harp on about the 80s but what about 2002/2003/2004 ?
huge entries lots of money made and where did that all go?

Now ive spoke my mind.

[StockHatch782]

Originally Posted by MESHGA

This place dont change does it!!!!!

It's like coming home for dinner and a row with the wife: not always what you need after a long day but strangely comforting.

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by MESHGA

That seams to allready happened ..

True! its because money talks and those with it have the only say be it right or not its life .

I agree, sad but true on both counts.

[Larry Carter]

As a lifelong fan of rallycross, and a relatively new competitor, as long as there are different factions pulling in different directions, then rallycross will struggle.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, only when Peter Stott and Pat Doran get together and offer competitors a SINGLE British Championship, then, especailly in these recession-hit times, will grids start improving.

Losing Croft was a MASSIVE blow to the sport and the reason for its demise? Poor crowds at rallycross meetings according to BARC Chairman Dennis Carter when I spoke with him. The high court injunction means that they have to operate the most profitable 40 days per year and because the weather was unkind to rallycross there in 2008 and 2009, they made no money so, coupled with the fact the track needed a lot of repair after the 2009 Superprix, they canned it.

The Superprix meeting I did there was, quite simply, one of the best days motorsport in a long career on both two and four wheels, but as someone who spends most weekends trawling up and down the country 40 odd weekends a year, the attraction of a four or five hour haul to Lydden or Knockhill with not that long on the car to be honest, means other forms of motorsport appeal greater to me at present and am fortunate enough to have a car that is versatile (if not massively competitive) to allow me to do that. I know of many cars which are parked up for this reason too.

Not sure of the answer, but a simplified calendar with unified classes and better competition would be a start, after all rallying is suffering too because of too many championships and different rules, not only lack of disposable income on the competitors part.

[M.Lowe]

Rallycross needs a kick up the arse and with the Doran's on board things can only get better in terms of attracting more entries to British events from not only home drivers, but drivers from Europe.

As a life long fan too by watching then getting involved through servicing years ago for a friend we could see where rallycross was splitting and with the formation of the Open championship I was a fan of that at the time, but with the development now in the BRC with television, European round, Belgian round over here its time to either get together or I now feel the Open Championship will suffer more (and its a shame to those from the Open Championship after the work put in by them) as the BRC becomes more popular.
Money talking yes, but without money and influence this sport will stagnate over here where Europe will forge further ahead.

TV coverage is good at the moment and will get better. Just look at whats on now and with Motors TV showing the French and European coverage for those of us that cannot attend these meetings shows how well the sport has evolved.

When the Rallycross Grand Prix from old stopped and it was taken on to run at Croft they where excellent days, but now with the rallycross grandprix name going south and the superprix going further north I feel the Superprix will suffer as who wants to come from Europe and travel up the country when you can go over on a ferry or shuttle and you are in kent.
Progression will carry on despite who gets left behind

[chunder]

Hehe well you are the one who bought and ran a STOCK Hatch mate, need I say more, fair play to you for getting out there though. I would rather spend my hard earned to win some money and do some short oval racing, but then I imagine you would think that too easy as you are only turning right or left all the time, no?

My opinions on here are not directed at promoters, drivers or anyone involved with the running of the sport. I will state my mind and comment on the twin championships because from the start that has been idiotic and self destructive. As far as meetings go then I dont attend many so feel it unfair to comment on specific meetings.

But other than that I post occasionally direct posts on here to provoke argument, provoke discussion and generally make this forum a little more entertaining. Typically the people in the bikes forum are far more forgiving and have a sense of humour, but that is to be expected as most them are foreign!!

I am not the one calling into question my social life, my state of mind or general status as a human being. That I leave for people who can not (As I can) construct and take criticism of their beloved rallycross. And when the time comes praise aswell, I think I was one of the first to congrat Liam on his ERC win and various other things.

I leave the veiled insults to the sticks and stones throwing brigade.