[BTCC] Round Two, Snetterton 12-13 Jun, Races 4,5&6

[antnee]

I think the Infiniti isn't a particularly quick car, Moffat is only getting similar results to when he ran in the A-Class. Boardley's results are very similar to last year. Yet Ash makes it look like it has 2 inch wider tyres and 50bhp more... If the car was quick then he would be qualifying on pole and walking away when he gets to the front - it just seems to be set up in a fashion that can make it change direction very easily.

[AnnoyedMoose]

Pretty hard to say that it's the engine in the Infiniti that is making it fast when it's nowhere near the top of the speed traps. If any engine could be protested it would be the Ford.

Sutton always appears to have his car setup quite soft as it seems to have a lot more body roll than the others. That would mean more grip and traction out of the corners with the RWD in theory but how he keeps from cooking the tyres I don't know.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

why? they could diferentiate of Toca Swindon FWD and Toca Swindon RWD so it only hurts the Infiniti

I think that any adjustment has to apply to all cars running that engine type. That is the reason that the 125 was subject to the same adjustments as the 330.
Looking at the current results, I expect an adjustment to RWD CoG to be the first area they might look at.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

We do get one clean race a season.

Talking of clean racing - I'm tracking one strike received over the weekend given to Parfitt, with the awarding of two penalty points.

Does anyone know of any other strikes?

[S griffin]

Just shows how clean the racing has been so far

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Just shows how clean the racing has been so far

or maybe the cars are so strung out on such a long circuit meaning the racing was clean.

[antnee]

Plenty of opportunities for door banging around the infield section, along with punting up the inside into Brundle and Murrays

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Jiiiiiiim

Fair play, the guy is trying to do the right thing.

Absolutely, and until someone at HARD told me it wasn't something I knew - so good on Andy Neate for helping out and credit for not shouting from the tree tops about it.

Good too that he covered the costs of Jessica running at Snett.

Not the best driver in the world necessarily - but by no means the worst either - and evidently a well meaning and thoroughly decent chap. Good on you!

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I think Sutton is still my choice as champion again. I just don’t see anyone that has a package that can compete.

A fine blend of consistency and speed mixed with few errors. When he does push too hard and sometimes beyond the limit is qualifying, rarely does he push too hard when there's points to be had. Reminds me of Ayrton Senna more so than any other driver I've watched.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Jelley is doing quite well, very consistent so far. I hoped he'd finish on a podium in R3 but still a decent start of the season.

Also, no one is talking about that but Jack Goff finished half of the races inside the top 10 - a feat impossible with old HARD's Volkswagens. Fighting for Top 10s may not be everything Goff is capable of but at least it seems he can fight for something this year, not just go around in circles towards the back of the grid. Honestly, I expected this.

Yeah, he's good and I reckon he and the Cupra will be further up the finishing order consistently as the season progresses. With any luck some of it will rub off on his teammates too.

[BobJones]

Please BTCC - ditch the choice of tyre compounds.

Did I miss it last season? Not even slightly?
Was the race at Thruxton worse without it? Absolutely not.

Kind regards

Bob Jones

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by BobJones

Please BTCC - ditch the choice of tyre compounds.

Did I miss it last season? Not even slightly?
Was the race at Thruxton worse without it? Absolutely not.

Kind regards

Bob Jones

Personally I am happy if they just let the drivers choose before the race weekend. Say for example they have to nominate 7 days ahead of time what tyre compound they want. I would even say let them use different tyres on each axle.

[steve_r]

The ballast and reverse grids mix things up enough already, without the tyre compounds, so I would be quite happy if they all used the same tyre.

[S griffin]

I notice in today’s Autosport that Smelt’s retirement is listed as ‘phantom oil leak.’ I wonder what that could mean?

[crmalcolm]

Remember that BTCC needs as many variables as possible - otherwise how would BTCC fans complain about lack of parity between cars?

Also, do we really want a BTCC driver to not have a choice of excuses for a poor result - other than having to just admit they weren't good enough?

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Remember that BTCC needs as many variables as possible - otherwise how would BTCC fans complain about lack of parity between cars?

Also, do we really want a BTCC driver to not have a choice of excuses for a poor result - other than having to just admit they weren't good enough?

Speak for yourself, I'd love 'lack of parity' and 'the best always win' approach

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I notice in today’s Autosport that Smelt’s retirement is listed as ‘phantom oil leak.’ I wonder what that could mean?

Must have slept through the Rolls Royce entering BTCC announcement...

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by BobJones

Please BTCC - ditch the choice of tyre compounds.

Did I miss it last season? Not even slightly?
Was the race at Thruxton worse without it? Absolutely not.

Kind regards

Bob Jones

Completely agree! I was so sick of hearing the words 'hard' and 'soft' before the first race had even started.

[thetool]

The whole thing has been silly for years now. Once a sport becomes an entertainment package, as the BTCC undoubtly has been since the 90s, it's almost inevitable.

Even in the 90s you'd have various tweaks with FWD/RWD 4-5-6 cylinder engines and RPMs, etc, but they were at least a lot more general and done at FIA level across all championships. Then came the 40-30-20KG success ballast in 2000 to improve the "show", a situation that was escalated in following years, including permanent extra weight for Vauxhall in 2001 as they were the only team on the grid to built a proper BTC-Touring spec car.

And since then it's been one contrivence after another - Reverse Grids (2004), Reverse Grids with pulling number out of the hat (2005), Spec engines (2010), Spec engines that are performance-balanced (2011), followed by the inevitable end result of everything being performance-balanced by 2013/4, and then unncessary multiple tyre compounds (2013). It wouldn't even be so bad if they just did it openly like GT3 - but instead it's all cloak-and-daggers to the point where not even the teams are aware of all the various performance balances other teams have been granted.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by thetool

The whole thing has been silly for years now. Once a sport becomes an entertainment package, as the BTCC undoubtly has been since the 90s, it's almost inevitable.

Even in the 90s you'd have various tweaks with FWD/RWD 4-5-6 cylinder engines and RPMs, etc, but they were at least a lot more general and done at FIA level across all championships. Then came the 40-30-20KG success ballast in 2000 to improve the "show", a situation that was escalated in following years, including permanent extra weight for Vauxhall in 2001 as they were the only team on the grid to built a proper BTC-Touring spec car.

And since then it's been one contrivence after another - Reverse Grids (2004), Reverse Grids with pulling number out of the hat (2005), Spec engines (2010), Spec engines that are performance-balanced (2011), followed by the inevitable end result of everything being performance-balanced by 2013/4, and then unncessary multiple tyre compounds (2013). It wouldn't even be so bad if they just did it openly like GT3 - but instead it's all cloak-and-daggers to the point where not even the teams are aware of all the various performance balances other teams have been granted.

Agree. All the mumbo jumbo with turning boost is a bit strange and pulling numbers out of the bag before R3 is a bit ridiculous. The ruleset is such that cars are generally close together so in my opinion taking too many actions to make the grid equal is unnecessary. I would do without performance weights, different tyres and reversed grids. I know it's an unpopular opinion and also I know the cream always rises to the top (thankfully the BTCC is not as random as WTCR!) but I'd like to see more sport, less family entertainment. Of course it'll never happen and I enjoy this family entertainment a lot but 'harsher' rules would he welcome.

[BTCC frog]

My personal view is that Formula 1 should be entirely pure with no gimmicks, as it is the top level of motorsport and is all about the best driver/team combination, but other series like the BTCC should just be entertaining, and so gimmicks are fine.
But I don't understand why the option tyre is the thing everybody complains about. It really is much less gimmicky than everything else, as it affects all cars equally over the course of the weekend (they all have to do it, so nobody gets an unfair advantage). And it does make the racing more exciting as different cars will be different speeds at different points in the race. I am all for keeping the option tyre. Other gimmicks like success ballast and reverse grids are far more gimmicky and I would detest to see them in F1, but think that in the BTCC they really add to the entertainment and at least they usually affect all the title contenders a similar amount. The only gimmick in the BTCC that I dislike is the boost reduction, as I see it as totally unfair, with some teams being affected more than others, particularly as they change midseason and so suddenly. I don't mind that the BTCC chooses to penalise RWD as they do have an advantage (or would do if there were no restrictions on them), and the FWD cars are far more exciting to watch so I would prefer to have as many of them as possible, but the RWD penalties should never change midseason, and the teams should always be given long notice before the season that the changes are happening so they can switch cars if they want to.

[antnee]

It is simple really, without BOP then it's purely a £££ development race just like F1. Even with BOP, the top drivers are still at the pointy end.

[AnnoyedMoose]

Purists might not like it but at the end of the day BTCC is hugely popular. There are far more people who want to see close racing than those who want to see racing purity.

As has been said the best still rise to the top no matter how many "gimmicks" there are.

[S griffin]

I'm not really fussed about the option tyre. At least it's not two compounds a race like F1. However I don't think many really missed having it last year.

I don't really mind too much about the ballast and reverse grid either. At least they are set. What I don't like is the constant boost adjustments. They are just far too random for my liking. And neither do I like them trying to 'equalise' FWD and RWD. In order to have great racing, you need cars with different strengths and weaknesses

[antnee]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I'm not really fussed about the option tyre. At least it's not two compounds a race like F1. However I don't think many really missed having it last year.

I don't really mind too much about the ballast and reverse grid either. At least they are set. What I don't like is the constant boost adjustments. They are just far too random for my liking. And neither do I like them trying to 'equalise' FWD and RWD. In order to have great racing, you need cars with different strengths and weaknesses

The adjustments to equalise FWD vs RWD is to give them strength and weaknesses. If you removed all the 'restrictions' for the RWD cars (CoG adjustment, gear ratios, boost restriction and ballast) then the top 5 cars would always be RW, it would become a 2 tier championship.