Greatest Racing History of all time?

[Ginger1]

I saw this topic on another forum and thought I'd open it up to you guys.

Which Marque has the greatest racing history of all time? Disregard formula be it GT, Oval, F1, etc etc

Is it Porsche? Ferrari? Lotus? Mercedes (Surely a strong contender) Ford? Chevrolet?

A huge and open question, but should be interesting for a decent debate. If we take the Paris-Rouen as the first Motor-race, let's work from there.

As an aside who has had the most influence on motor racing? Mercedes? Lotus?

Have fun,

Phil

[dretceterini]

I think combined GP and sportscar wins, Alfa Romeo still leads all other marques

[Adam43]

Takes some thought this one. I feel that Rallying should contribute a little. It is hard to find a good pre and post war marque too.

Mercedes was this, but after '55 there wasn't much until the '80s. But they have F1, sportscar and touring car, along with a dash of rallying and the big events like the Mille Miglia.

I love the suggestion of Alfa, but recently its only been touring cars, albeit successfully.

Ferrari? Well fantastic success, but only over the last 50 years! But only really in a couple of categories.

Lotus, McLaren and similar manufacturers. Not that old, although a lot have done Indy, F1 and Sportscar.

Ford? Well they have won in almost every kind of racing and been dominant at one time or another in most. NASCAR, Rallying, Indy, F1, Le Mans, etc...

Porsche? Le Mans, Rally, F1, Rally raid.

I'd throw Jag in, although due to not having great constant periods of success can't be a major contender. Le Mans, Rally, Touring Car. Limit periods though.

Chevrolet? Not sure at all. Big though.

So!

Considering their small size I think Porsche.
Considering their large size I think Ford. Been there done everything.

However I'd rather own a Porsche, so in my world Porsche wins.

[David McKinney]

You probably need to set your limits a bit more tightly, Ginger
Otherwise someone might come up with BMC!

[Ginger1]

It is a wide open topic, I'd forgotten to add Alfa I must admit. It's almost about contribution rather than success, but that just leaves it WIDE open.

It doesn't have to be recent success - which brings Alfa right into it and leaves Porsche and Ferrari struggling a little, although not all that much to be honest.

Also it becomes mre difficult with the current mega automotive corporations - Fiat, VAG etc etc.

I'd rather not tighten the margins as I feel that would discourage debate a little.

As for rather owning a Porsche than a Ford, generally I'd agree but that GT does stir the soul somewhat!

Phil

[Richard Young]

Renault ?

[Adam43]

Hmmm. Around forever. GP. Le Mans. Rally. Touring Car. Hmmm. Could be. Still rather buy into the Porsche heritage though!

[D-Type]

Greatest history across the board? I think we should include rallying.

Ford - Certainly across the board - except for Grand Prix where they have only been a supplier.
Renault - Grand Prix, sports, rallying - but not Indycar/CART/USAC or GT
Mercedes - as for Renault they haven't done Indycar
Alfa Romeo - again not Indycar
Maserati - Grand Prix, Sports, Indianapolis, saloon car racing but I don't think rallying or GT
Ferrari - not saloon car racing
Lotus - Grand Prix, sports, Indianapolis, rallying and saloon cars(Lotus-Cortina), GT (original Elite)
Cooper - as Lotus if you include the Mini Cooper

So, on the grounds of success in all forms it has to be Lotus.
If you accept being an engine supplier counts than it has to be Ford.
Hang on though! Fiat now own Ferrari, Lancia and Alfa Romeo (and Maserati?) so the answer has to be the Fiat Group

Most influential car?

Difficult

De Dion - the De Dion rear suspension
Panhard - the 'system panhard' (front engine, rear drive, steering wheel not tiller, etc)
Cooper T45 - rear, or mid, engined GP car
Lotus 25- monocoque (OK they didn't invent the idea but they did popularise it)
Lotus 49 - cigarette sponsorship
Lotus 79 - ground effect

[krt917]

What about the pre-WW1 GP Peugeot. The first car to show that it was possible to increase the power and efficiency of an engine without increasing its size to that of a small country!

This is a really tricky question, and I think the answer depends partly on how you weight different categories. GP success would probably be more of an achievement than touring car wins (depending on period), but how do you measure that?

I think I'd agree with Adam. Ford wins for the large companies whilst Porsche wins for the smaller ones, not just due to their success in different categories, but also due to the fact that they have kept sportscar racing alive at various points in time.

As for most influential, I think I'd go for the innovations of Lotus.

Just as an extra note, I recently compiled a list of winners of 24hour races, looking at Le Mans, Daytona, Nurburgring, and Spa race histories. Anyone want to guess the top three makes?

[gfm]

I think it's Porsche.

Old man Ferdinand did stuff that no one else thought of time and time again (like four wheel drive, super and turbo charging, rear engined race cars; stuff like SSK Merc, Auto Union GP cars and much much more were all his.)

When he produced road cars they could be driven by inexperienced girls and race drivers alike, and went on to be the marque to beat in long distance stuff and still provide customers with competitive cars.

Man and marque of the century IMHO, though Ferrari ran him close.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by gfm
When he produced road cars they could be driven by inexperienced girls and race drivers alike,

er, early 911?

[gfm]

Er ... Triumph Herald? Thought that would make the best onemake series ever!!

It's fair to suggest the young girl won't drive like a race car driver, but she needs light controls, easy vision etc ... I accept the thin ice Adam!

[Adam43]

fair enough!

Still a great car though. Did someone forget to tell Porsche that the engine is in the wrong place

[gfm]

I thought the thought process went along the lines of that of the Beetle: that the noise and commotion that was caused by such a simple propellant could be left well behind and not smoother the occupants.
Then they found out that skilled drivers could use the benefit of better traction and the instability to get cars turned and away from corners in competive situations.
Mmm ... lateral thinking. ******** really.

[Richard Young]

Okay, let's be really silly......Did somebody mention Triumph Herald ? How many races did its front uprights win ? How small does greatness really have to be ?

[Dani Filth]

i really think its Alfa ... done it at the top level in every series they entered ...