Under / Over

[Kirk]

I know many here love to diss JV at every opportunity and there is always a magnifying glass (or should I say microscope) on his every move, particularly looking for anything negative. But if we look at the year to date, and for whatever reason, there are many underachievers and a few achievers. The achievers are led by Alonso, Kimi is there as is DC, Nick and Trulli. But after that, most drivers aren't really impressing me. Yes, the new rules are a large factor, particularly impacting MS and Rubens. But Ralf, Fisio, JV, Massa, Webber have underachieved overall. Sato's disrupted season hasn't been very hot either. With the season just past the one third mark, there is plenty of time to turn things around. I wonder out loud who will show the best turnarounds in the upcoming 12 rounds of F1? And will any of the achievers falter?

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Kirk

I know many here love to diss JV at every opportunity and there is always a magnifying glass (or should I say microscope) on his every move, particularly looking for anything negative.

Had you not opened with this I think you would have had a good topic. However.........................

[Sodemo]

Montoya has certainly underachieved for a variety of reasons.

Its a real shame, I support Montoya more than any other driver, and its sad to see him not perform.

[Gt_R]

To list some of the under-achievers of what they achieve to what they "should" achieve is probably subjective..but here goes.

- JV (Massa shows what a Sauber is at least capable of, and Massa isn't even a super-driver)
- JPM (Hardly his fault yet, due to circumstances, but still, i had expected more from him now that the Mclaren is a winner in Kimi's hands)
- Ralf (sad really, we thought a new team would revitalise Ralf...but Trulli clearly shows him the heels)
- Fisichella (the car is good enough for podium, but Fisi just couldn't, though not fully his fault)
- BAR (completely drop down the competitive ladder)
- Jordan (no reason for them to struggle to beat Minardi on same tyres)
- Ferrari/Bridgestones (sad to say..for the technical power and talent, should really provide MS and RB a better package)

Overachievers...those who i think got better results than what is possible, or at least better than what people expect
- DC (we thought he's in retirement mode...)
- Minardi (well..the new car isn't setting top times, but a decent improvment)
- Red Bull (well...former Jag team, little resources...but a good fight near the front)

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Had you not opened with this I think you would have had a good topic. However.........................

Too bad! Something constructive would have been nice, but, guess not.

[Peter Mallett]

That was my point Kirk. Thank you for expanding.

[Kirk]

I left JPM and Button out because of their interrupted seasons, but both could be in the same underachievers group, in JB's case the car just hasn't been up to the task. JPM has lost some momentum but I think he is more than capable of finishing strong. Ralf, as usual, is somewhat of a mystery and has shown signs of coming to life. JV is inconsistent in a disappointing Sauber while Massa is wearing out his tyres on a chassis built for Bridgestones. Fisi, but for that opening win has both struggled to keep up to his teammate and had some tough luck. I look for Fisi to come on strong. Michael too, if the tyres keep improving should be right up there, not sure how Rubens will do.

[Mr V]

Underachievers - Ralf, JV, Liuzzi, Jordan

Overachievers - Jarno, Toyota, Red Bull, Klien

[N I Tram]

Jarno has certainly over-achieved, although the team hasn't - they've just finally reached the level they should have been at all along. Ralf has probably under-achieved as much as JV, although at least he's kept the car on the road consistantly. The biggest under-achiever of all is probably Bridgestone.

[Mr V]

Maybe Bridgestone aren't under-achieving, Maybe Michelin are over-achieving

[ralf fan]

Underachievers..
1. JV- was expected to beat Massa or atleast be at par with him.
2. Ralf- yes he's been badly outpaced by Trulli...but he has scored solid points at most Gps...but still Trulli has got 3 podiums
3. Bridgestone- the probably were expected to be inferior with the lack of top teams helping them and the new rules but i really didnt expect such a huge dip in performance.

Overachievers...
1. Klien.... he has been a revelation
2. RBR.... At the start i predicted them to struggle badly...but they have surprised everyone...
3. Trulli... consistancy has never been Jarno's strenghts but he has improved on that aspect...

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally Posted by Kirk

I wonder out loud who will show the best turnarounds in the upcoming 12 rounds of F1? And will any of the achievers falter?

I ignore all but this part of your thread, as this is the most interesting

Fisi is a slow starter with a new team, he showed it last year, and I think he is showing it again this year, though he has had rather poor luck in every race except Australia. I look for him to come on strong in the coming races.

Micheal will be his usual self, getting as many points as the car allows him. If the BS Ferrari combo gets better, Rubens could also recover nicely.

I worry a bit about Ralf, as Trulli is proving fast and consistent. The car is pretty good, and maybe Ralf has not yet fully recovered - so I think he might come on strong. Ditto for Juan Pablo.

Jacques', I'm sorry to say, is done. I just can't see him recovering from this terrible start. And Massa is starting to show why Ferrari signed him.

Webber is, IMHO, too good to not improve. I expect him and Nick to be neck and neck for the rest of the season.

[BootsOntheSide]

JPM and Liuzzi both have reasons for their comparative under-achievements, and could both achieve more as the season goes on. The worry is that RBR's driver-swapping will not only make Liuzzi look bad, but will also scupper the promising start Klien made. Out of the other drivers, I think Trulli, Alonso, DC and Karthikeyan have all greatly exceeded expectations, while JV, Ralf and Albers have fallen short.

[pD F1]

Villeneuve, Sauber, Webber, Ferrari, BAR have all been under-achievers IMHO.

Overachievers - Red Bull, Klien, Coulthard, Toyota, and 'Quick Nick' Heidfeld (considering that it took him so long/struggled to wrench the second Williams drive from 'pizza boy' Antonio Pizzonia.

[Logrence]

I don't think Villeneuve and Sauber have under-achieved, I think their current form was pretty much to be expected...

[lookleft]

Underachievers
How can you pass McLaren as the star underachievers? Fastest car by some margin and what, 2 wins from 7. Hardly capitalizing on your advantage.

Ferrari - too complacent, paid for Todt and his attitude towards testing. Still very fast but underestimated the progress other teams would make. How arrogant to think with the major aero changes the you could run a cut and shut job for the first 4 races... shame and it's nice to see them paying for it.

Liuzzi - don't think to three into two deal is doing him any favors in his first year. Should be the dedicated 3rd driver for the year to build experience and maturity. Said it before but the 3rd driver slot does not require you to dump the thing in the sand trying to set times and make a name for yourself.

Overachievers
RBR have certainly placed themselves well to pick up the pieces when the chances are given by the big 4.

Klien - getting shafted by the RBR deal but way up on performances last year.

[John Turner]

I agree with pretty much what has been said about who are the underachievers and overachievers (RBR with DC really stands out for me) but of those underachieving teams, I think Ferrari will undoubtedly improve. BAR should really start to show some improvement and I really hope we see Jordan get there act together. Of the drivers, I think JPM will certainly give a better showing for the rest of the season and I really hope Ralf does, too.

[Knowlesy]

Underachievers

Vitantonio Liuzzi: I like Liuzzi a lot and expected him to be very good indeed. Frankly, his performances have bordered on pathetic. He did score one point at Imola though, after three thousand cars were disqualified.....I have my doubts over whether he'll get many more races this year. Klien has shown himself to be far superior in less races.

Jacques Villeneuve: A continuation of his lacklustre "what am I doing here" performances at the back end of 2004 where he struggled to score points in one of the better cars. No, sorry, failed to score points. This season he has been even worse. Despite a great performance at Imola and in Monaco first qualifying, you'd think you were watching Alex Yoong. Except I can't remember Alex ever crashing into his teammate and making constant poor excuses. Jacques will not last the season if he carries on like this.

Mark Webber: For me, he has been flawless in qualifying but his races need some improvement. We expect lots of Mark and aren't really getting it at the moment, a situation I expect will change. At the end of the season, he won't be in the under achievers box. At least, I hope not!

Giancarlo Fisichella: Yes, I know his car is rather fragile. But peel away the mechanical frailty to reveal the true performances and here you have a man who has been simply outclassed by his teammate, who is bossing the championship at the minute. We expected so much more, yet after his rather fortuitous victory in Melbourne he has not done too well at all. Briefly impressed in Spain, was pretty tenacious at Nurburgring, but that's it. Should be doing better!

Ralf Schumacher: I feel a bit awkward putting Ralf in here. He hasn't been that bad has he? But then, look at where his teammate is and you soon see why he is listed as an underachiever. Some would say he's performing at his normal amateurish level, but a six time GP winner should at least be giving Trulli something to think about. Where is the Ralf of 1999?

BAR: A truly shambolic effort from a team capable of wins. It will get better, but let's face it, it can't get any worse. Button and Sato are two class acts caught up in a wasted effort.

Ferrari and Bridgestone: Oh dear me. On and off track, Ferrari stink. Showing signs of improvement on track at least, though.

Overachievers

Narain Karthikeyan: Has petered out quite nastily in the past two races, but prior to that he has shown his ability in a car that is past its sell by date and handles like an Atlantic cruiser. His car control alone is enough to make you wet yourself. A fine ambassador for India and a damn nice fella it seems.

David Coulthard: Rewind to the Brazilian GP, 2004. It's David Coulthards last GP for McLaren after almost a decade. An emotional occasion, a day where you expect a special drive from DC to nicely end his career with the Woking guys. And yet, here we were, witnessing a performance so below average that at times you wondered whether he was on his slow down lap. Albeit 71 slow down laps chained together. "Why does DC want to carry on" I asked?
2005 has shown why, he enjoys it, he can drive quickly after all and he is an essential part of RBR. He has scored the bulk of their points and narrowly missed out on a podium - twice. A superb turnaround.


You could also say Toyota, Klien, Massa and Heidfeld have over achieved, but this bunch are performing pretty much as I expected.

[John Turner]

Great summing up, Knowlesy ..... and love the avatar!

[Knowlesy]

Thanking you!