VSCC Snetterton Sunday 29th

[Mike Bell]

With the AMOCR on Saturday and VSCC Sunday, as last year this should be a great weekend for anyone interested in older racing and road cars!

Hope to spend some time looking and watching. Anyone else?

[Peter Scillitoe]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

With the AMOCR on Saturday and VSCC Sunday, as last year this should be a great weekend for anyone interested in older racing and road cars!

Hope to spend some time looking and watching. Anyone else?

I'll be there marshalling, following the HSCC meeting at Brands Hatch on Saturday.

[Mike Bell]

Unfortunate news from the circuit is that an accident in qualifying has stopped proceedings. Reports of a driver being thrown from his car on pit straight and damaged Armco having to be replaced. I hope that the driver involved is not seriously hurt and the meeting can continue after barrier repairs.

Away from the racing lots of spectacular cars on display and big crowds. And sun.

[Peter Mallett]

Yes hope the driver is ok.

[Mike Bell]

Well, jammy bugger James got another podium. P3 after qualifying 6th in the 50 s Sportscars. Lotus reliable and quick enough to be competitive!

Regarding the accident, no official statement. Am fearing news will not be good, though.

[gt917]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad and sad news, but the driver of the Bugatti passed away later this afternoon.

My deepest sympathy to all.

[Mike Bell]

I did have that info this afternoon but wanted it to be official. Now reported HERE . I was not aware, however, of another car being involved.

My sincere condolences to the family and friends of the driver involved.

[PeterMorley]

Apparently Steve Jewell died on his way to hospital following a coming together with an ERA.
As a friend of a friend I've passed condolences on.

[Peter Mallett]

Very sad news, yet another of our community gone this year. My condolences to Steve's family and friends.

[Bugly]

Thanks for your concerns regarding the incident at Snetterton yesterday.

I am the Public Relations Manager for the Vintage Sports-Car Club and would like to direct you to the official statement from the Club which has recently been published.

VSCC Statement http://www.vscc.co.uk/page/news?newsItemID=200

Gillian Carr

[John Turner]

Many thanks, Gillian. I have started a thread in Tributes:-

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...60#post3311060

[john ruston]

It's going to be difficult for the Pre War cars to continue to race unless a safety code is agreed.

Quicker cars,older drivers,etc,etc,

We are looking at ways to protect drivers

[gt917]

Originally Posted by john ruston

It's going to be difficult for the Pre War cars to continue to race unless a safety code is agreed.

Quicker cars,older drivers,etc,etc,

We are looking at ways to protect drivers

I had no idea that pre war cars did have a problem with racing standards.

What we witnessed yesterday were wonderful standards in driving and presentation and i cannot remember the last time a driver was killed in this racing format.

Thank goodness for older drivers. In the main they have experience and respect.

Can you not let a little time pass in respect of the driver, and then tell us less informed non vintage racers of the problems that are going to stop the racing for these cars??

[john ruston]

I know the drivers and all are good blokes

The news is terrible but the jungle drums tell me that people are questioning safety in general with Pre War stuff due to this and other incidents.

[Peter Mallett]

I think that with a thread opened in Tributes for Steve, it is only reasonable that any discussion in connection with the future of vintage racing is held here, simply because it was at this event where the tragedy occurred. I don't really see it as disrespectful although as ever, no doubt I will be corrected.

Not being very familiar with VSCC or racing of those cars, it occurs to me that cars of that age can never be made "safe", furthermore I recall being at Brands Hatch in 1983(?) when a driver lost his life at Paddock Hill Bend in the GP meeting.

Of course the debate can be had in connection with many ages of cars. Witness the sad loss of Christian Devereux, in May. There have been others, including Allan Simonsen at Le Mans this year. So, the passing of one of our community whilst on track will inevitably lead to questions because as has been said, they are all good blokes and their loss is not easy to bear, especially if you are involved in that particular genre of the sport.

As stated in the above press release, an official investigation is being undertaken and from there, no doubt some recommendations will arise. But that shouldn't stop the organisers seeking advice from the experts in the genre.

[Moneyseeker]

On a wider note, at some of the historic meetings I have been to, I was surprised at the complacency shown by drivers venturing out onto the track with open face helmet and goggles and no fireproof balaclava and those with roll bars and seatbelts not wearing HANS.

Regarding the investigation, I can't see that they can conclude anything other than racing a pre-war car without seat belts or any other safety devices is extremely dangerous and term it as a tragic accident.

As Peter says, cars from this period are hard to make safe, but I am interested to hear what could be done.

[john ruston]

The Pre War cars are run without belts or in most cases roll over bar.

We want to continue but will it be allowed?

It is virtually impossible to fit safety equipment that will be effective.

Knowing the blokes involved they would want the Pre War racing to continue without change.

Thanks Peter for making the point about respect as all the people involved in Pre War racing are obviously very upset by this and the whole of the racing community shaken.

Some of us are in the process of sending cars to races in the next weeks and need to clarify what is considered acceptable.

We like to race cars as they were in period.

The cars are more dangerous than 99% of post war cars but notwithstanding that I do not want some H and S fellow to change that.

[john ruston]

Have just read post 16

Why are you surprised as that's the way Pre War racing has always been.

Some of my lot will not use a hans devise in post war car.

I can't see anyway to have proper roll over bars and they do look awful !

Sure some committee will advise what's needed.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by john ruston

I can't see anyway to have proper roll over bars and they do look awful !

Not only that but they would stiffen the car up which would not be a desirable or safer option, surely? Apart from altering the handling characteristics would it not put great stress on suspension and steering etc?

[john ruston]

The answer may be to adopt the US method of historic racing rules which makes it less cut and thrust and has draconian rules for drivers that transgress.

[apriliadriver]

Dear Moneyseeker,
I can see that you mainly post in the more modern parts of the Forum (F1`/BTCC etc) and I don't know if you are a racer of historics, but I think you are being too quick to rush to judgement about this issue.

Wearing a full-face or open-face helmet is very often a question of what you were wearing when you started. I wear full-face because of better jawbone protection and always raced in one. Lots of people find too much loss of vision in a full-face. You adapt or you don't.Similarly, HANS. I won't go into the pros and cons.

I think you are wrong to call this 'complacency'. None of my historic racing colleagues could be called complacent about the safety rules. Balaclavas are worn, certainly in circuit racing, which is all I know about.

As other posters have said, pre-war open-cockpit cars pose special issues. They are generally less resilient in an incident, and the driver is rarely strapped in. One school of thought suggests that the prospect of being thrown out of a car is preferable to the car rolling on top of you. People who race Edwardian, vintage and post-vintage cars know they are taking and qualifying a wider range of risk. This is the first fatality for many years in this pre-1939 class of racing, and it will serve notice on the racer community.
Nick

On a wider note, at some of the historic meetings I have been to, I was surprised at the complacency shown by drivers venturing out onto the track with open face helmet and goggles and no fireproof balaclava and those with roll bars and seatbelts not wearing HANS.

Regarding the investigation, I can't see that they can conclude anything other than racing a pre-war car without seat belts or any other safety devices is extremely dangerous and term it as a tragic accident.

As Peter says, cars from this period are hard to make safe, but I am interested to hear what could be done.

[rogerwills]

I think it wrong for people to jump to conclusions. From all accounts I've heard the incident may have been caused by a heart attack in which case it has nothing to do with driver standards or safety equipment. It could just as well have happened on a public road with similar or worse consequences.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by apriliadriver

Dear Moneyseeker,
I can see that you mainly post in the more modern parts of the Forum (F1`/BTCC etc) and I don't know if you are a racer of historics, but I think you are being too quick to rush to judgement about this issue.

Wearing a full-face or open-face helmet is very often a question of what you were wearing when you started. I wear full-face because of better jawbone protection and always raced in one. Lots of people find too much loss of vision in a full-face. You adapt or you don't.Similarly, HANS. I won't go into the pros and cons.

I think you are wrong to call this 'complacency'. None of my historic racing colleagues could be called complacent about the safety rules. Balaclavas are worn, certainly in circuit racing, which is all I know about.

As other posters have said, pre-war open-cockpit cars pose special issues. They are generally less resilient in an incident, and the driver is rarely strapped in. One school of thought suggests that the prospect of being thrown out of a car is preferable to the car rolling on top of you. People who race Edwardian, vintage and post-vintage cars know they are taking and qualifying a wider range of risk. This is the first fatality for many years in this pre-1939 class of racing, and it will serve notice on the racer community.
Nick

I don't race historic cars and of course respect your opinion. On the balaclava front, using Goodwood Revival as a recent example, there were many drivers racing without balaclavas, a quick flick through the event photos' shows many examples of this and I was by the collecting area for quite a time and witnessed this first hand. That's what I mean about complacency.

Regarding HANS, again some drivers at Gooodwood were wearing them others not - and I am referring to those with 'suitable cars'.

I suppose my point is that you can't bowl up at BTCC, FIA GT or any junior series without HANS or balaclava on the basis you don't like wearing them and be allowed on the track - so perhaps the same should apply to all racing regardless of the level.

Of course, none of the above would have made any difference to the tragic accident at Snetterton, I am only making the wider point that all available personal safety equipment should be worn as matter of course, not choice. I personally know one driver who fractured 3 vertebrae in his neck in an historic - he was not wearing HANS or any other neck support - thankfully he was lucky and did not suffer any long lasting damage, but we can't rely on luck - all IMO.

[relativtortoise]

Originally Posted by rogerwills

.... in which case it has nothing to do with driver standards or safety equipment.

I was at Snetterton and also run a 35B in sprints- a concern I have is that the drivers helmet was lost during the initial impact.

This was a Bell full face helmet and I really can't fathom how this can happen

I have no issue with running without roll bars, Hans or straps but I certainly want a helmet.

Edited: VSCC seem to think one point on this post is inaccurate so section removed.

[john ruston]

The drivers are mature enough to make their own decisions.

They all know what the guidelines are and I hope we can continue racing with no roll bars ,belts etc,Those hans things are of no use in Pre War cars.This is how they have raced for past 100 years.

We do not need nanny state thinking in Pre War racing or rally's come to that.