[WEC] 2018-2019 WEC Super Season

[Deleted]

I suspect that after the Toyota cruising of Spa and in lead up to Test Day, there will be a adjustment made back in favor to the nonhybrids, but it will be largely cosmetic

Originally Posted by TF110

I think you're wrong. Lopez says that at Aragon the private teams testing alongside them were faster. We had reports that the SMP was doing 1:17's there and the Kolles was doing 1:18's, which was the pace Toyota was doing. If that's the case then you need to factor that the private teams are slower than what they ultimately could be because they have yet to even get on top of their cars. I'm sure they've learned a lot from the prologue. Especially a team like Rebellion.

I wouldn't trust anything these drivers may say, or what times are done in non-closed testing. In the hybrid era there wasn't much use for sandbagging because the EoT was 100 locked in between the factory cars almost a year in advance, but now rn can be tweaked at any time between hybrid and nonhybrid (technically that was always the case but obviously in the past largely irrelevant)

Anyway if Toyota has a lap advantage on stints at LM they'll basically be unbeatable on pace, whatever the competition may or may not do lap time wise. What the nonhybrids will be hoping for is for Toyota to crumble just like they did in 2012, 2014, 2016 and 2017 (and previously in the 90's and 80's). Toyota on the other hand will hope for "boring unspectacular steady run" like in 2013 and 2015 which would probably still give them the victory in 24 hours.

Toyota's (allegedly) improved on the prep and time it takes to fix numerous theoretical issues that may occur, and I have no doubt that in comparison to the privateers their problem-solving-capabilities will be vastly superior (even if not necessarily up to the standards of VW of past)... however as Porsche showed last year, even if you have a 15-20 lap lead when you're cruising at the front instead of mere LMP2 cars and no-one else in sight, you can still lose it, especially by not managing to drag it back to the pits from the other side of the 13km circuit. I don't think you can stimulate every possible end of the world scenario in testing...

[TF110]

I respect your opinion, what weve seen so far and the times from the prologue plus what endurance-info reported, Toyota isn't much if at all faster than the private teams on race pace. I think they might have a tire life advantage because of their experience with the car, but they are heavier so that might use the tires more than the others. And of course the stint length will be another talking point too!

On the Toyota serviceability I think having the hybrid sync'd with most of the car is the issue with time to repair and replace. Audi and Porsche could decouple their hybrids from the engine while Toyota can't iirc. That surely makes it tougher to swap out things and change stuff like last year's LM with the #8 front mgu. Maybe the private teams will have it easier without all the hybrid complexity.

[XtC24]

Plus it is still not clear to me if they can actually get the car to the pits from say Tertre Rouge on electric power only. Last year someone of commentators said it was possible but it was not the case both with the Toyota #7 and Porsche #1 altough you could notice Toyota went little further.
If it is still impossible than all the preparation for the unexpected could be worthless in the end. Nothing happens twice the same way and they could have a problem in Indianapolis this time tough .

Also it is simply illogical to prepare for the unexpected .

[Graham Goodwin]

Jenson Button joins SMP Racing for Le mans and remainder of FIA WEC

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/0...mp-racing.html

[Steve McQ]

Originally Posted by Chiana

I wouldn't trust anything these drivers may say, or what times are done in non-closed testing.

Exactly. If the privateers are faster with no fuel, ultra-soft tires and engine in full attack mode than Toyota cruising in race mode quadruple stinting the tires, it doesn't mean they are absolutely faster. It's exactly the same as in F1 winter testing : sometimes even Manor could mix in midfield, but when the real season started, they were 3" to 5" away from the front of the pack.

[XtC24]

Yes, maybe Toyota will have a small advantage but I prefer it to be so.
If they will build up an gap of about 1 or 2 laps in Le Mans it will be their only but still small chance to win it. If they could get to the pits and fix the car so fast in the first place. So Toyota 1 or 2 seconds faster will not hurt privateers. Only "little" thing to do for them is to beat the other nonhybrids and survive. Toyotas results at LM is the only reason for the amount of privateers in the Superseason.

[Deleted]

Yeah cars with more advanced engineering and bigger resources should always have an advantage (if it's comes genuinely) because this is a sport for the best, not 'everyone's equal' and 'everyone must win' competition like in some other formulae. God knows there are enough of those around now!

Now, whatever happens to the Toyotas, and especially since they rejected coming back with third car again, the nonhybrids are automatically given the final place on the podium at the very minimum in each event. That's much more than privateers have been able to aim for more than a decade now (especially after they were killed of from Le Mans Series and ALMS) - so they shouldn't get too greedy in desires but just accept whatever it is that happens on track from here. Especially at LM where they are just as likely to win outright anyway as the Toyotas, for the known reasons.

[XtC24]

No, in fact the privateers are the favourites, not as likely.
Porsche was clear favourite for me last year and this year will be no different.
Just there are more LMP1s to beat them.
Because Toyota is Toyota and they for example chose to go with two cars this year, just one more mistake for them, every year they "deliver" something like that.

It deserves a longer story to describe their "bad luck" - it is just pure BS, nothing about luck in their case surely.

[Deleted]

I agree that LUCK has nothing to do with Toyota's LM history.

Now, might I just add something to the Jenson story... while it's great news to have him here, what he says here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZjeqkSPFcg
"It's always been the dream of mine to race at Le Mans..."

This has bit of a feel of Radio Le Mans joke here, where they read a press release of random driver who says "ever since I was a little boy I wanted to race in the German Porsche Carrera Cup". Why? Because:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/11...-future-option
As well as some other articles later on. Now obviously opinions and points of views change, but still it's somewhat funny

I'd also like to (perhaps cynically) say that with Button there, it might be a saving grace for Toyota to have Alonso... because you know it would have been really easy for ACO to hand overly generous EoT to the nonhybrids to "give Formula 1 star a fairer chance for victory"... it could have been seen as handed 'for the interest of common good', just as with the Fuji WEC date change. And akin to when Loeb came to Le Mans with Pescarolo, against the Audis. But now that Fred is there... as big as a name as Button is, he's no Alonso.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Jenson Button joins SMP Racing for Le mans and remainder of FIA WEC

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/0...mp-racing.html

Fantastic news! He sure isn't getting a lot of time off in retirement!

[S griffin]

That’s a great boost to the series, I’m sure his silky smooth driving style will really suit the series

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by joeb

Fantastic news! He sure isn't getting a lot of time off in retirement!

I guess it's interesting that's he's racing at Fuji 3 times in 2018 after not setting a foot to the circuit since 2008

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by S griffin

That’s a great boost to the series, I’m sure his silky smooth driving style will really suit the series

He might be in for a bit of a shock (pun intended) at Sebring!

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

He might be in for a bit of a shock (pun intended) at Sebring!

Maybe surface wise, but seeing as he's already raced at narrow, twisty Okayama and soon will be at places like SUGO and Autopolis, he will have got rid of the Grade 1 comfort zone well before March. Alonso not so much (the little roval infield bit at Daytona earlier this year wasn't really that telling of what to come)

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Maybe surface wise, but seeing as he's already raced at narrow, twisty Okayama and soon will be at places like SUGO and Autopolis, he will have got rid of the Grade 1 comfort zone well before March. Alonso not so much (the little roval infield bit at Daytona earlier this year wasn't really that telling of what to come)

But Alonso has plenty of testing mileage with Toyota at places like Aragon that are nowhere near F1-level Gr.1 facilities with huge runoffs. He's a pro, he'll acclimate to these tracks. There's only 1 he hasn't been to anyway in Sebring. Lots of the lmp1 drivers are in the same position I don't think Toyota's failures at Le Mans are all down to incompetence, but they aren't all bad luck either. I think a mixture of both. I do think they can do it this year and should have last year. Everything that went wrong with the #7 and #9 getting back to the pits was supposedly addressed in their testing. They said they even drove around Ricard on 3 wheels.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by TF110

But Alonso has plenty of testing mileage with Toyota at places like Aragon that are nowhere near F1-level Gr.1 facilities with huge runoffs. He's a pro, he'll acclimate to these tracks. There's only 1 he hasn't been to anyway in Sebring. Lots of the lmp1 drivers are in the same position I don't think Toyota's failures at Le Mans are all down to incompetence, but they aren't all bad luck either. I think a mixture of both. I do think they can do it this year and should have last year. Everything that went wrong with the #7 and #9 getting back to the pits was supposedly addressed in their testing. They said they even drove around Ricard on 3 wheels.

Motorland Aragon is Grade 1.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Motorland Aragon is Grade 1.

Yes... With generous parking lot space and sterile smooth surface

Anyway regarding Toyota at LM... while yes over the years there has been rather large percentage of plain... you know, incompetence and/or lack of preparation for sure, I do agree that not all of it is down to just that. From time to time there has also been issues that doomed them reasons that were out of their control

So I guess I agree with TF to certain point. I would not sign a paper that claimed their so-called curse to be down to "just bad luck"... but nor would I sign a said "just plain incompetence". However, I don't think there's been much luck at all involved even in the cases of external reasons, but rather "stuff just that happened".

All in all - their track record is terrible, regardless of reasons, let's face it. BUT there is only one way to fix it, and that's what they're doing! Which is good. It's adorable to see them try of course, and keep committing to the world's greatest motor race. Most of all not give up immediately like those public relation cowards at Nissan.

[XtC24]

Ok, but do we actually know if a LMP1 hybrid is able to comeback from Tertre Rouge on electric Power now?

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Motorland Aragon is Grade 1.

Bad example. I know they tested Algarve which is grade 2, but it still has some runoff areas.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by S griffin

That’s a great boost to the series, I’m sure his silky smooth driving style will really suit the series

Totally agree about driving style, SMP have pulled off quite a coup there!

As an aside, you have to hope the new breed of privateer LMP1's prove to be super reliable. The teams are signing up big name drivers for fun, which only makes sense if the cars are void of the constant niggly problems associated with privateer prototypes.

[Deleted]

RLM will have WEC preview next week but unconfirmed which day.

There will be no coverage of Free Practice 1-3 from RLM (which has been their standard for the non-LM races for number of years now, except for Silverstone IIRC), nor from ACO streaming or any other source, but there is live timing + PDFs from alkamel

Spa TV distribution (mostly TBC though)
https://www.fiawec.com/assets/fileup...32fe8a249b.pdf

[TF110]

They really need to televise the practice sessions imo. I think they should do that for free on the app as a preview to entice people to upgrade to the full version so that they can watch the race.

[Deleted]

Le Mans Test Day would be even more important.

Anyway I think the only televised sportscar racing practice sessions in the world are the 4 Hour Free Practice for Le Mans, and then some practice sessions for Nurburgring 24 Hours and (at least years ago?) Dubai 24 Hours. Are there any more?

As for streaming practice sessions, I don't think the number is much higher but there are some that do that.

Of course audio wise, RLM too used to cover all the practice sessions for WEC/ILMC and ELMS/LMS, but not anymore, except for Le Mans and probably Silverstone. IMSA, Creventic and random one-offs and club events do get practice coverage though, I guess they're prioritized...

[Deleted]

ACO/WEC world feed team for non-LM races
Martin Haven
Allan McNish
Graham Goodwin
Louise Beckett

ACO/WEC world feed team for Le Mans 24 Hours
Martin Haven
Allan McNish
Toby Moody
Karun Chandhok
Peter Dumbreck
Julian Porter
Louise Beckett

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Chiana

ACO/WEC world feed team for non-LM races
Martin Haven
Allan McNish
Graham Goodwin
Louise Beckett

ACO/WEC world feed team for Le Mans 24 Hours
Martin Haven
Allan McNish
Toby Moody
Karun Chandhok
Peter Dumbreck
Julian Porter
Louise Beckett

Bummer, so no Haven interludes on RLM at Le Mans?