[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by TF110

If this appeals to small hypercar manufacturers like a Pagani or Koenigsegg that's a plus imo.

I can't see where those small hypercar manufacturers will find 25 million euro to burn in racing (and get their ass kick by Toyota).



A wise man should have money in his head, but not in his heart.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Juntos

I can't see where those small hypercar manufacturers will find 25 million euro to burn in racing (and get their ass kick by Toyota).



A wise man should have money in his head, but not in his heart.

You'd be surprised what some of these companies will be willing to do. Some of them want to go racing but can't because their productions cars don't meet homologation requirements - usually by way of not meeting production requirements.


If they can use the same basic car long enough to offset the initial development cost, you just might see a few of them. Especially if they can split the development cost between themselves and a partner like, say, Dallara. I think you'll see a lot of attempts at such if "Hypercar P1" actually comes to fruition as planned - though how many will come to fruition I dare not try to predict.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Juntos

I can't see where those small hypercar manufacturers will find 25 million euro to burn in racing (and get their ass kick by Toyota).



A wise man should have money in his head, but not in his heart.

That's the upper limit of the budget. That's not a prerequisite to spend in order to enter. It's just like VAG teams were putting out over $200 million, but Nissan and Toyota didn't put up that much to compete. I think the difference between 10 and 15 million to 25 million is a lot smaller than it would be had Porsche or Audi stayed on with the same amount.

[canaglia]

Actually 25m$ is the amount of money required only for the WEC season program.
To me is quite unlikely that small hypercar factories like pagani could sustain aero/chassis/engine/hybrid development costs.

[Juntos]

If Toyota is gonna spend 25 million euro, and they will, the others will have to follow if they want to win.

[TF110]

Not so much a 'future' regulation article, but it's talking about the teams wondering what's up with the 15kg weight break non-turbo cars received from the latest EOT- https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...59042/?nrt=205

[Akrapovic]

The SMP car was consistently faster in the speed traps at Le Mans than every other car. It was presumed that this was due to a much lower downforce setup, but it may be that the engine does produce more power. Are they balancing power through weight? Very odd if so.

Odd call, although I do think the 7 tenths claimed is a bit of artistic license.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

They claim they have more data because by the time of Le Mans some engines had not been on the dyno yet. I think we can guess which one that was...

[carbsmith]

It's easier to take weight out of three cars than slow down the entirety of the rest of the class (and drag it towards LMP2 in the process) because they're out of power.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by TF110

Not so much a 'future' regulation article, but it's talking about the teams wondering what's up with the 15kg weight break non-turbo cars received from the latest EOT- https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...59042/?nrt=205

The pot calling the kettle black

ByKolles ought to focus on running more than a handful of installation laps this weekend....let alone any BOP or EOT concerns....

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Articus

The pot calling the kettle black

ByKolles ought to focus on running more than a handful of installation laps this weekend....let alone any BOP or EOT concerns....

ByKolles finished 4th at Spa and at Le Mans they were taken out by a crash. There's more than just them running turbo engines too.

[joeb]

Koenigsegg interested in the hypercar regulations. I think this would be fantastic if they could out a program together. It also make me wonder if this is what the ACO intended to attract with the new regulations, or if they would prefer major OEM's to make cars for the series.


http://amp.timeinc.net/thedrive/acce...020?source=dam

[Sodemo]

Will they be required to use a production shell / tub?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Will they be required to use a production shell / tub?

Not that we know of. Should be a bespoke racing chassis.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Will they be required to use a production shell / tub?

No, no homologation requirements at all yet Mr Koeniggsegg talks about just taking their Agera and adding "some hybrid stuff" to it.

Either he is clueless about the regs or this is a bogus story. Sad that even DSC took the bait.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by deggis

No, no homologation requirements at all yet Mr Koeniggsegg talks about just taking their Agera and adding "some hybrid stuff" to it.

Either he is clueless about the regs or this is a bogus story. Sad that even DSC took the bait.

To be fair they only say he has expressed interest which is true. Now how long that interest lasts after he, and we for that matter, learn the actual rules? That's the difference between USF1 (hey we had interest and looked at maybe kinda possibly making a toaster) and Haas.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by joeb

Koenigsegg interested in the hypercar regulations. I think this would be fantastic if they could out a program together. It also make me wonder if this is what the ACO intended to attract with the new regulations, or if they would prefer major OEM's to make cars for the series.


http://amp.timeinc.net/thedrive/acce...020?source=dam

I think the ACO did intend for smaller manufacturers to get involved as well.

But the wires got crossed again somewhere, this is not a homologation class as far as we know. It is more comparable to DTM or Super GT, and still quite far away from that. It's unclear whether this Koenigsegg person knows that or not.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

To be fair they only say he has expressed interest which is true. Now how long that interest lasts after he, and we for that matter, learn the actual rules? That's the difference between USF1 (hey we had interest and looked at maybe kinda possibly making a toaster) and Haas.

But he is talking about using their existing road models. Unless something has changed since the June press conference and the outline document ACO published that's not going to be either possible or very competitive solution.

I wouldn't be surprised if interview was the first time Mr Koenigsegg heard about the regs.

[andrewn7]

Originally Posted by deggis

But he is talking about using their existing road models. Unless something has changed since the June press conference and the outline document ACO published that's not going to be either possible or very competitive solution.

I wouldn't be surprised if interview was the first time Mr Koenigsegg heard about the regs.

The Hypercars regs need to be consigned to the dustbin of history, fast, and then lets all move on with an evolution of what we have now.

[pablocomics]

I bet my 5 bucks for a Koenigsegg-Oreca-AER or a Koenigsegg-Ligier-Gibson... You know, a nice and beatiful sticker on a standard frame.


Am I the only one who thinks than ACO is going to withraw the hypercar regulations?

[seanyb505]

I think it's time I announce my interest in building a car to regulations.

But, I'm still evaluating other options, like not building anything at all, cause it's super expensive for me. Actually I'm evaluating all options. Staying at my current job, checking monster.com...maybe just mowing the lawn today. But rest assured, I am interested in having stickers on my lawn mower. I just haven't made a decision either way.

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by deggis

Either he is clueless about the regs or this is a bogus story. Sad that even DSC took the bait.

They are no different than the others. They need clicks and views.

Originally Posted by seanyb505

I think it's time I announce my interest in building a car to regulations.

But, I'm still evaluating other options, like not building anything at all, cause it's super expensive for me. Actually I'm evaluating all options. Staying at my current job, checking monster.com...maybe just mowing the lawn today. But rest assured, I am interested in having stickers on my lawn mower. I just haven't made a decision either way.

[TF110]

Maybe Koenigsegg will make a car that could race in the series as-is. If you look at the Valkyrie pro, that is pretty close to what the ACO has in mind. What isn't talked about is if it's an existing car or if they could make one for the race and the road. Kinda like the Toyota GR Super Sport which is going to be a road car but seems to be the new rules car at the same time. Another example is Mr. Glickenhaus and his project.

[FormulaFox]

A friend of mine has suggested that Hypercar LMP1 should use the Class One tub.

His logic is:
1: Spec tub will bring costs down further
2: Already meets crash safety requirements
3: Has proven it can be used to make competitive mid-engined cars
4: Will force designs to have the roadcar-like cockpits that would be expected of a "Hypercar" P1.

Can't find fault with the logic - it would likely cheapen the costs since the tub is one of the three most expensive components of a racecar, and using the already developed and crash-tested Class One tub would cut a LOT of development cost from the budgets. The GT500 NSX, despite early problems, did evolve into a competitive car in Super GT, and the cockpit shapes would be roadcar-like without running the risk of becoming like first and second generation DPs.

Anyone got a good reason not to go that route? And I mean ASIDE from the politics of motorsport that we can be relatively sure would kill this idea on the spot if it were ever actually suggested.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

A friend of mine has suggested that Hypercar LMP1 should use the Class One tub.

His logic is:
1: Spec tub will bring costs down further
2: Already meets crash safety requirements
3: Has proven it can be used to make competitive mid-engined cars
4: Will force designs to have the roadcar-like cockpits that would be expected of a "Hypercar" P1.

Can't find fault with the logic - it would likely cheapen the costs since the tub is one of the three most expensive components of a racecar, and using the already developed and crash-tested Class One tub would cut a LOT of development cost from the budgets. The GT500 NSX, despite early problems, did evolve into a competitive car in Super GT, and the cockpit shapes would be roadcar-like without running the risk of becoming like first and second generation DPs.

Anyone got a good reason not to go that route? And I mean ASIDE from the politics of motorsport that we can be relatively sure would kill this idea on the spot if it were ever actually suggested.

My question is: Does the Class One tub allow body designs like the Valkyrie or the Toyota GR Super Sport?

Perhaps the use of the Class One tub could be allowed but it should not be mandatory as it happens in GT 300 where the MC can be used or not.