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Old 4 Jun 2012, 19:38 (Ref:3085243)   #26
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Without the privateer petrols and satellite teams you would currently have a six car LMP1 field at Le Mans, three at tops in WEC. And that would look quite damn pathetic, especially in the eyes on non-hardcore fans who turn TV on just once a year. They don't care about LMP2, no matter how many entries and cloned Oreca Nissans you might have... the P1 petrols might not have a chance but (in theory) it is the same class

'Nuff said.
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Old 5 Jun 2012, 03:29 (Ref:3085416)   #27
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I'll throw this out there and see what sticks...

Would requiring factory teams to sell cars to privateers help the situation or hurt?

Arguably the best era of Group C was the Porsche 956/962 years, where a team could buy one and be somewhat competitive out of the box.

I also wonder how this can work as a business model in LMP1 while it seems to be the norm in GT.

Last edited by Duff_44; 5 Jun 2012 at 03:30. Reason: Offenses against the English language
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Old 5 Jun 2012, 03:55 (Ref:3085418)   #28
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That's the downside of the alternative technologies at this stage of racing. I think that has escalated the costs more than anything else, really. I also think the restrictive engine rules/constant rules changes have hurt privateers. They simply don't have the funds to buy new engines and the small suppliers such as Judd don't have the resources to keep building new engines to adapt to new regulations. The modified 3.4 V8's have been around forever and are definitely obsolete. Nissan has the best LMP2 engine and I think a lot of it is due to the fact that they didn't come in to the sport until the new cost-cap LMP2 rules/regs were implemented.

To me, loyalty/longevity in the sport has not resulted in anything too special for the privateers. Yes, they should be somewhat at a disadvantage. Toyota are proving that equivalency regulations are fair for gasoline/diesel. It's just that in today's LMP1 racing, the alternative technologies/level of sophistication required to run at the front are far too costly for most teams to afford. You just can't buy a TS030 or R18 and run it competitively like Joest or the Kremer brothers could buy a 962 and fight with the works teams. Whereas the Group C regulations were stable, current regulations are anything but.
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Old 5 Jun 2012, 06:22 (Ref:3085443)   #29
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I do agree with the P2 privateer P1 factory sentiment, perhaps the grid in this situation could be boosted by the FIA/ACO pushing for more satellite teams in P1 running factory cars? For example, Rebellion running the TS030 or even Oreca taking a TS030 of their own. Not sure how viable that is considering the costs involved with a factory P1 machine... Would be nice though, the 2011 Rebellion livery on the Toyota!
Yeah, same here!

I would imagine having a factory team and a privateer running 6 TS030s at Le Mans.

Unless the development of the LMP1 car is cheaper, we won't see the privateers driving it...
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Old 5 Jun 2012, 07:24 (Ref:3085457)   #30
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If the ACO would leave the regulations alone for a longer period then perhaps proir year factory cars could find there way into privateer hands whose development could perhaps give the newer fcatory cars a run for their money, it happened with Pesca and the old pug and Kolles with the r15, Perhaps the ACO could insist that for preferential treatment in allowing the factory teams places on the invite list the proir year cars are sold/rented to satelite teams like they do in motor GP
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Old 5 Jun 2012, 08:53 (Ref:3085478)   #31
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Are the current LMP1 cars alot more fuel efficient than the old Group C category? - I have no idea.

If they're not, then what has all this new technology and hybrid engineering actually achieved.

What mpg does the new Toyota achieve compared to a Porsche 956/962 for example.

Group C was always controlled by a finite amount of fuel, so has there really been a quantum leap forward in this area or is this all marketing/green cobblers?
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Old 5 Jun 2012, 09:18 (Ref:3085488)   #32
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I'll throw this out there and see what sticks...

Would requiring factory teams to sell cars to privateers help the situation or hurt?

Arguably the best era of Group C was the Porsche 956/962 years, where a team could buy one and be somewhat competitive out of the box.

I also wonder how this can work as a business model in LMP1 while it seems to be the norm in GT.

Back then, there were of course a bunch of places teams could and did run Group C cars - just from the top of my head, you could race a Porsche 962 in WSC, German Supercup, Interserie, All-Japanese-Sportscar Championship and with the approbriate modifications in IMSA GTP - that's quite a market and akin to what we have today for GT3 cars.

Meanwhile, GTE as far as customer cars are concerned is running into the same problems as prototypes: With only a rather finite number of places to run them, customer programs sell less and less cars and commercial viability must be a concern by now.

In short: For the customer sport program to work in a LMP1 environment you'd need more than 2 series to race these cars in.
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Old 6 Jun 2012, 06:17 (Ref:3086064)   #33
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A private team could easily build a car that could win - they just need to through enough money at. Just look at Red Bull in F1.

The current crop of privateers in WEC, good as they are, are not in that league - they are still using off the shelf cars built for commercial profit.

If WEC and FIA raise the profile then maybe more of the worlds billionaires will take an interest. At the moment there is no one willing to do it - maybe as more manufacturers come in then more wealthy privateers will follow!
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Old 6 Jun 2012, 12:08 (Ref:3086201)   #34
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If WEC and FIA raise the profile then maybe more of the worlds billionaires will take an interest. At the moment there is no one willing to do it - maybe as more manufacturers come in then more wealthy privateers will follow!
Russia, China, or any other Gulf State should create a team with their own money and win some races...

And also, the FIA should convince them that endurance racing is exciting and cheaper than F1.
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Old 6 Jun 2012, 12:42 (Ref:3086219)   #35
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and cheaper than F1.
The profile really needs to be raised to achieve that. Add tighter competition and couple of more races and budgets will easily go over 100M euros. That's only a bit less what a mid-level team spends in F1 right now.
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Old 6 Jun 2012, 13:44 (Ref:3086267)   #36
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Kind of hoping that the one good thing that comes out of this Bahrain race is some Middle Eastern investment. It's these sort of guys someone like Henri needs to go and impress.

Not saying it's a good long-term strategy but plenty of cash there to get programmes off the ground.
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