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Old 20 Jul 2019, 10:21 (Ref:3918593)   #31
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Originally Posted by broadrun96 View Post
I agree with both there and would add who could someone sign Ocon at this point? Renault backed out to put Ricciardo in the seat and Wolff and Abiteboul have had a word joust about being gentleman and backing out of the deal. But just today I've seen reports of him in Haas before the end of the season and in the Renault or Mercedes for 2020 so apparently everyone wants him.

Promoting Kvyat would mean you have to release Gasly, you can't demote him and expect a result with the history Red Bull has had. And it's not like Dany is tearing up the racing scene and at the front of the mid-pack. Gasly has had his moments and 55 points compared to 12 points to Kvyat, neither have any podium appearances but that's a wide margin of points.

Russell I think has the challenge of being MB affiliated and being behind Ocon who they can't manage to find a seat in the field. He's stuck until Lewis, or Bottas even, decides he's done racing I think. They have the old Red Bull problem and one Marko wishes he still had, too many drivers and not enough seats.
I think Merc will drop Bottas and put Ocon in the seat, if they don't and let Ocon go he could end up at RBR Honda, and he is a star of the future, Bottas is a journeyman and of no future benefit to Mercedes. Hamilton should be able to beat Ocon at this point in their careers, and Ocon will get the make or break chance he needs.
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Old 21 Jul 2019, 13:31 (Ref:3918726)   #32
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Nor of lingering on in a lesser team. I don't think he has the same feel for F1 as Raikkonen.


On Bottas at Mercedes. Mercedes can talk all they want about Bottas his form. However as long as Hamilton is around they are perfectly happy with a driver like Bottas. What is more to want, he does bring in a decent load of points, yet doesn't risk Lewis' championship nor does he take unnecessary risks with both cars on track. In my eyes it's all bullshit.
I think the biggest reason for Bottas to stay and perhaps for as long as Hamilton stays is harmony within the team and no primma donna fighting between the two drivers as there would be if say Verstappen is given the gig. Toto is a a gifted manager who knows exactly what a peaceful team means for morale and he won't disturb it if it can be avoided. Bottas does exactly what is expected of him by the team but some fans don't see it that way.
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Old 21 Jul 2019, 15:21 (Ref:3918731)   #33
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I can see absolutely no benefit to anyone at Mercedes with Ocon replacing Bottas (apart from Ocon). Right now I don't think there is any reason other than sentiment towards Ocon to justify it, and when did sentiment last dictate who got a plum F1 seat?
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Old 21 Jul 2019, 18:12 (Ref:3918741)   #34
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Yeah, without a concrete commitment from Lewis to move on after 2020 it would be insane to add that dynamic to the team and definitely against Toto's all is well management style. Think Ocon is the odd man out and might have to hope Ferrari or Renault want to come calling and he can get released.

When is Max's contact with Red Bull up? I'm sure they'll at the very least make it close to impossible for anyone else to sign him when the deal is up. Ferrari already has their guy in Leclerc, adding the guy who he's scrapped with already on track will not be good for team dynamic. Renault doesn't seem to have the cash or willingness to pay so it would seem like Mercedes and Red Bull would be bidding against each other only. Only asking because that could determine this year's off season market, can't get tied up with long deal if the driver you want could be available.

It does feel like Grosjean is definitely on the hot seat, Vettel is the big driver of the off-season. Can teams wait for Vettel to decide and can Ferrari wait for him? Can't have that seat open although I'm sure they could bring back Kimi or bring up Giovinazzi so they're aren't too bad off. Makes it feel like this year is the mid race setup, each team feeling out the flow and possibly not much action.
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Old 21 Jul 2019, 19:01 (Ref:3918743)   #35
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I think Ferrari can wait, unless they have already decided that they don't want Vettel/Leclerc for 2020.

AFAIK Vettel still has a contract so unless they decide they no longer want him, they will assume he will be back.

I think Ferrari realize they will not be able to lure Hamilton or Verstappen for 2020 anyway.

Should Vettel decide at the last minute he's had enough, they can always offer a 1 year contract to the one that misses out on a Renault seat (Ricciardo/Hulkenberg/Ocon), or even Kvyat (was their test/reserve driver), Giovinazzi, Raikkonen. Or Perez. Or Bottas if he'd be out at Mercedes.

A 1 year contract, if he surpasses expectations you can keep him, otherwise go for a higher-profile driver or one of your juniors (Schumacher/Shwartzman/Armstrong/... who else) -- a lot can happen in a year (and a half)
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Old 21 Jul 2019, 19:04 (Ref:3918745)   #36
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When is Max's contact with Red Bull up?
2020 Broadrun, although reportedly there's a performance clause providing Max an early out:

Max Verstappen manager confirms clause, drops hint Red Bull star could leave for Mercedes [d. 29 Jun 2019]

"Verstappen signed a new deal with Red Bull two years ago, running until 2020.

But he could potentially leave a year earlier, according to Spanish publication Marca.

The report states Verstappen has a performance-based clause in his contract which says if the 21-year-old fails to win a race by the Hungarian Grand Prix then he would be able to begin speaking with other teams about a possible move for next season.

And Vermeulen has confirmed the Dutch driver has such a clause in his contract, although he refused to give any details on what that included.
"

Contract clauses won't decide Verstappen's future - Horner [d. 10 Jul 2019]
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Old 22 Jul 2019, 11:16 (Ref:3918832)   #37
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I think that’s very clever of his management to add in that get out clause. No use losing your best years if don’t have a car to win the title
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Old 22 Jul 2019, 18:30 (Ref:3918893)   #38
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If the "get out" clause is "fails to win a race by Hungary" then that one has gone by now, hasn't it?
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Old 22 Jul 2019, 19:22 (Ref:3918899)   #39
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Yeah, without a concrete commitment from Lewis to move on after 2020 it would be insane to add that dynamic to the team and definitely against Toto's all is well management style.
Agree.

As to Verstappen and a potential RBR exit. Who knows what his contract actually says, but lets say the reports are true and that the escape clause is void given his recent win.

As mentioned above, he may be locked in for 2020 and yet, there may not be any better rides being available anyhow (at least, not yet), he may be quite happy where he is... for 2020.

However, the 2021 driver market may be much more exciting.

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Old 23 Jul 2019, 20:03 (Ref:3919075)   #40
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i admit to having selfish (and overly optimistic) reasons but i would like to see him stay with RBR for the long haul.

if some of the proposed rules come into effect in 2021 forward then who knows, but the prospect of a more equal play ground with LH finishing out his career at Merc, Leclerc at Ferrari, Max at RBR, Ric at Renault, Norris at Mclaren...

i dont know if the clowns can make it happen but to me such a spread competing in (more) evenly match machinery feels like there is a potential golden age on the horizon.
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Old 23 Jul 2019, 20:20 (Ref:3919079)   #41
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Of course it would be better if more cars were competitive, then it wouldn’t matter so much who went there and having top drivers in different cars would add to the spectacle
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Old 17 Aug 2019, 02:03 (Ref:3923043)   #42
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This is a bit of interesting speculation; Vettel may go back to RBR, which would the trigger shifts all over the driver market.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...-driver-market

Honda could well stump up the big money to retain Vettel as they did with Senna.

Don't know what the team dynamic would look like between Vettel and Max.

Interesting hypothetical.

When is Max out of contract?
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Old 17 Aug 2019, 10:10 (Ref:3923069)   #43
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I have seen stranger things happen. Still it would really be a turn up for the books if Seb went back to RBR. Suddenly the whole driver market would be all over the place
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Old 17 Aug 2019, 16:55 (Ref:3923110)   #44
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Vettel's return to RBR would be crazy but not out of the realm of something Herr Marko would try. I'm guessing there would be no chance of extension from Max then though. You would have to think he would want the option of any of the big 3 seats if Hamilton decided to retire and well Ferrari doesn't seem like they'd be against 2 big drivers, it could be a disaster or an insanely dominant season.

Either way if that happens with Vettel you will notice the internet slowing with every reporter, blogger and forum seeing traffic records.
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Old 17 Aug 2019, 17:05 (Ref:3923113)   #45
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When is Max out of contract?
The article says end of 2020 - in line with Hamilton and Vettel (subject to clauses).
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