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Old 30 Aug 2019, 16:44 (Ref:3924857)   #76
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Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker View Post
Having been over to Zandvoort for the Dutch Alfa Club's Spettacolo Sportivo last weekend, how on earth are they proposing to run a GP there next year? There's very little run-off, a pretty limited paddock area, and only one grandstand for starters........
You’ve probably been to one of the last meetings before the circuit and surrounding area are ‘upgraded’ to meet the demands of F1! Wish I was racing there next weekend now......
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Old 30 Aug 2019, 18:49 (Ref:3924868)   #77
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From the F1.com site:
Jan Lammers, DGP Sporting Director, said: “The Zandvoort Circuit is legendary and known worldwide and we’re delighted to see it host a round of the FIA Formula One World Championship once again. To meet the wishes of Formula 1 and the required standards of the FIA the circuit and infrastructure will be modernized within a few areas, with the work completed well ahead of the race in 2020. In addition, the municipality of Zandvoort has recently invested heavily to improve access to the municipality and the circuit.”


I just can't imagine how work "within a few areas" will do it, and as for improved access - it's via 2-lane roads through residential areas, which were congested for our little Alfa show last weekend. At least it won't be holiday season.....


I wish them luck, but.....
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Old 31 Aug 2019, 21:35 (Ref:3925014)   #78
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Originally Posted by djinvicta View Post
Am I the only one wondering why Hulkenburg is so rated as a driver?
Mid team runner..
Save as Grojean.. replacing one with another same..
Safe pair of hands, solid no.2 etc wtc
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Old 31 Aug 2019, 22:12 (Ref:3925024)   #79
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Am I the only one wondering why Hulkenburg is so rated as a driver?
Mid team runner..
Save as Grojean.. replacing one with another same..
Has never been in a top car, capable of winning, always beat his teammate, till this year, where a race winner that was thought to be good enough for championship material became his teammate. And that championship-caliber teammate is separating himself from Hulkenburg, which shows that Hulkenburg is pretty darn good.

If Vettel went to red bull, Hulkenburg would be a good replacement for him at Ferrari, imo.
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Old 31 Aug 2019, 22:40 (Ref:3925032)   #80
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Perez has extended his Racing Point contract to 2022.

That must be the one of the longest stints that a driver has spent at the same team albeit with different owners.I can't think of any others. Kimi was a long time with Ferrari but that had a break in the middle.
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Old 1 Sep 2019, 16:30 (Ref:3925253)   #81
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Yeah.. but I'm sure Perez had his own "big money" in Force India. Did it not get "transferred" to Racing Point? He is part of the group?
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Old 2 Sep 2019, 13:22 (Ref:3925397)   #82
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I think Checo is someone they wanted. They seem to go well together. No reason to change
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Old 2 Sep 2019, 15:12 (Ref:3925419)   #83
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Originally Posted by djinvicta View Post
Yeah.. but I'm sure Perez had his own "big money" in Force India. Did it not get "transferred" to Racing Point? He is part of the group?
Certainly I recall reading of Carlos Slim (Sergio's long time billionaire benefactor and supporter) being an interested party in the takeover by Stroll... although the Slim involvement never got past the rumour stage AFAIK. I am sure Slim still is supportive to fellow Mexican Perez, as he has been throughout Sergio's long career in feeder series through to his current status.
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Old 3 Sep 2019, 00:21 (Ref:3925491)   #84
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interesting take from Mark Hughes on why Mercedes signed Bottas for 2020 here: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...-term-f1-plans

They want to give Russell more time, they want Verstappen, or they are about to dump F1!
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Old 8 Sep 2019, 15:26 (Ref:3926680)   #85
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Originally Posted by Taxi645 View Post
I made a list of Vettel mishap in wheel to wheel through the last few seasons:


June 2017 Bakuh (Vettel Hamilton incident)
Sept 2017 Singapore (Vettel, Verstappen, Raikkonen incident)
Oct 2017 Mexico (Verstappen vs Vettel, drives his front wing off at T2)

Jun 2018 France (Hits Bottas at T1)
Jul 2018 Germany (goes off in the wet)
Sept 2018 Monza (spun after contact with Hamilton)
Oct 2018 Japan (drives into Verstappen who’s ahead)
Oct 2018 COTA (runs into Ricciardo who’s ahead)

Mar 2019 Bahrein (goes on the throttle too early in fight with Hamilton)
Jun 2019 (misses braking point, cut’s chicane and gets penalty)
Juli 2019 Silverstone (Rams Verstappen off the track)




I'm not sure how he's gonna turn it around. What would change? As others have said, I like the guy off the track. However it's reaching a point that same input will give the same output.



June 2017 Bakuh (Vettel Hamilton incident)
Sept 2017 Singapore (Vettel, Verstappen, Raikkonen incident)
Oct 2017 Mexico (Verstappen vs Vettel, drives his front wing off at T2)

Jun 2018 France (Hits Bottas at T1)
Jul 2018 Germany (goes off in the wet)
Sept 2018 Monza (spun after contact with Hamilton)
Oct 2018 Japan (drives into Verstappen who’s ahead)
Oct 2018 COTA (runs into Ricciardo who’s ahead)

Mar 2019 Bahrein (goes on the throttle too early in fight with Hamilton)
Jun 2019 (misses braking point, cut’s chicane and gets penalty)
Juli 2019 Silverstone (Rams Verstappen off the track)
Sep 2019 Spins at Ascari
Sep 2019 Comes dangerously back on track at Ascari

The larger the pressure the....
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Old 8 Sep 2019, 16:51 (Ref:3926683)   #86
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I think it's a bit stupid to compile such lists.

A similar one can easily be made for every driver one happens to like or dislike.
Without looking up the details, just think of Verstappen's first half of 2018 which was far from brilliant and add in the 2 mistakes he made in the last 2 races.
Or do one for Leclerc, who also made a few unnecessary mistakes.

I am not saying Vettel did not make too many mistakes for a driver of his level, but still ...
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Old 8 Sep 2019, 18:18 (Ref:3926704)   #87
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I think it's a bit stupid to compile such lists.

A similar one can easily be made for every driver one happens to like or dislike.
Without looking up the details, just think of Verstappen's first half of 2018 which was far from brilliant and add in the 2 mistakes he made in the last 2 races.
Or do one for Leclerc, who also made a few unnecessary mistakes.

I am not saying Vettel did not make too many mistakes for a driver of his level, but still ...

The purpose of the list is to show that over multiple seasons, he is making too many mistakes that are too costly in his position. The more pressure he is under, the more inclined he is to make them (the Italy/Leclerc pressure of the Monza race being the latest example).

It has nothing to do with whether or not I like him. I think he is a very likeable person outside the helmet, but with his helmet on, he only seems able to cope with a situation where he is superior to his teammate and the rest of the cars.

I think the position he is in currently is not very compatible with the above. If he can mentally get to peace with not being no1 or else the world falls apart, he could be very valuable as a 2nd rider at Red Bull 2020 and 2021 and take the occasional veteran victory, cause I don't expect Albon to cope that much better next to Verstappen than Gasly did. If not I don't see a very good option for him.

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Old 8 Sep 2019, 21:02 (Ref:3926744)   #88
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Originally Posted by Taxi645 View Post
2020
(part wishing part expecting)

Mercedes
- Hamilton
- Bottas

Ferrari
- Leclerc
- Ricciardo

Red Bull
- Verstappen
- Gasly

McLaren
- Sainz
- Norris

Renault
- Ocon
- Hulkenberg

Sauber
- Raikkonen
- Giovinazzi

Racing Point
- Perez
- Stroll

Haas:
- Magnussen
- ?, Vergne?

Torro Rosso
- Kvyat
- Albon

Williams:
- Russell
- de Vries


For 2021 I could imagine Norris going to Mercedes if he keeps improving.

Updated based on recent events:


Mercedes
- Hamilton
- Bottas

Ferrari
- Leclerc
- Ricciardo

Red Bull
- Verstappen
- Vettel

McLaren
- Sainz
- Norris

Renault
- Ocon
- Gasly

Sauber
- Raikkonen
- Giovinazzi

Racing Point
- Perez
- Stroll

Haas:
- Magnussen
- Hulkenberg

Torro Rosso
- Kvyat
- Albon

Williams:
- Russell
- de Vries


That would be one hack of a line-up for the three top-teams. Fireworks guaranteed.


Red Bull needs a strong driver next to Verstappen to have more tactical options in races and to gather constructors points. I don't think Red Bull will find either Gasly, Albon or Kvyat good enough. Vettel is a Red Bull guy after all and I don't see him getting any happier at Ferrari. One plus one makes..... even if it will be a great pain to leave the Scuderia.

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Old 8 Sep 2019, 22:59 (Ref:3926759)   #89
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Originally Posted by Taxi645 View Post
2020
(part wishing part expecting)
I think it's best to stick to the facts and leave the 'wishing' part aside. We've had tons of lists in the past that were based on partial facts, partials wishes and partial fantasy and they weren't always received very well. Especially when there was no basis for something that was presented as 'fact'.


I can't see Renault go for Ocon and Gasly. I'd guess that they want to keep at least one of the current drivers aboard, just for the sake of continuity.
If Ricciardo were to move up, I think they'd keep Hulkenberg after all.

I can't see de Vries at Williams either, unless he brings a lot of sponsorship dollars. Unless Frits van Eerd opens his pockets, that chance seems slim.
If not Kubica, then maybe Latifi?

Despite all the Red Bull - Vettel rumours, I can't see that actually happen.
Seb's chances at success at what is essentially Max' team aren't really that better than at Ferrari I'd think.
The questions here are probably:
* What does Vettel still want to achieve?
* Does he have a contract for 2020 at Ferrari, and who is going to pay if he wants out? Would Red Bull be prepared to do that?
It all seems unlikely to me, but of course stranger things have happened.
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Old 9 Sep 2019, 01:26 (Ref:3926773)   #90
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Seb's chances at success at what is essentially Max' team aren't really that better than at Ferrari I'd think.
The questions here are probably:
* What does Vettel still want to achieve?
* Does he have a contract for 2020 at Ferrari, and who is going to pay if he wants out? Would Red Bull be prepared to do that?
It all seems unlikely to me, but of course stranger things have happened.
Agree.

Vettel seems past his peak and has been stinking it up recently. It can't all be bad luck. I expect its mostly headgame stuff. If he gets his head screwed back on, I expect he could rebound. Question is... will he?

Overall... I expect the test will be what happens over the remainder of this season. Can Vettel show he is a #1 driver? If not.. I can imagine Ferrari having a quiet conversation with him to find a respectful exit for him (I say this without knowing the length of his contract).

If not Ferrari, is he hungry enough to drive elsewhere? Especially if not a top team? If his performance doesn't improve, I can't see a Red Bull or Mercedes wanting him. I don't see him as a Kimi who drives for the love of it. I can see Vettel doing poorly elsewhere unless he gets himself together.

At the moment, I wouldn't be shocked if he just walks away an retires. I can't imagine he is having fun right now.

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Old 9 Sep 2019, 01:47 (Ref:3926775)   #91
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Exactly what he said above, Vettel is likely either Scuderia or out of F1. It would be seen as a step back to Red Bull and he'll be the #2 driver, even worse if his driving style doesn't match Max then he'll look lost in the car. Some of the moves make more sense, if Vettel were to leave grabbing Ric would be a great move and only viable option worthy of the seat.
Haas needs to do something and Hulk is a decent option, but how a strong a voice is he? Haas needed Grosjean to speak up and demand the old car back this season.
Sadly I think Kubica's time with Williams may be over and Latifi with his cash may fill that seat in 2020.
Does Ferrari have another kid in the wings to place at Alfa with Kimi?
Who is de Vries linked with and do they still have the champion can't return rule?
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Old 9 Sep 2019, 08:23 (Ref:3926829)   #92
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Originally Posted by gert View Post
I think it's best to stick to the facts and leave the 'wishing' part aside. We've had tons of lists in the past that were based on partial facts, partials wishes and partial fantasy and they weren't always received very well. Especially when there was no basis for something that was presented as 'fact'.
You're mixing up "silly season" with just "season".


Quote:
I can't see Renault go for Ocon and Gasly. I'd guess that they want to keep at least one of the current drivers aboard, just for the sake of continuity.
If Ricciardo were to move up, I think they'd keep Hulkenberg after all.
I agree, that would be better for Renault and Gasly would go to Haas (he's too good a driver to just let him leave F1), but I expect they shut that door themselves in relation to Hulkenberg.


Quote:
I can't see de Vries at Williams either, unless he brings a lot of sponsorship dollars. Unless Frits van Eerd opens his pockets, that chance seems slim.
If not Kubica, then maybe Latifi?
Is he F1 material? The F1 grid is getting stronger the last few years. I'm not sure on the 2nd Williams seat.


Quote:
Despite all the Red Bull - Vettel rumours, I can't see that actually happen.
Seb's chances at success at what is essentially Max' team aren't really that better than at Ferrari I'd think.
The questions here are probably:
* What does Vettel still want to achieve?
* Does he have a contract for 2020 at Ferrari, and who is going to pay if he wants out? Would Red Bull be prepared to do that?
It all seems unlikely to me, but of course stranger things have happened.
It is easier to accept a role as an experienced veteran 2nd driver who takes the occasional win in a new team than in a team where your status as the No1 driver is history, tricks are being played and there is the always present "Ferrari pressure".


Vettel seems to crack under pressure the last few years, especially in a car not handling the way he wants. What can he do to change that situation?

- Get away from the "Ferrari pressure" and trying to do the "Schumacher thing".
- Get away from having the pressure of having to compete for team status while tricks are being played. There's less pressure when you go to a team as second driver and take a surprising amount of wins (because you're a damn good driver and RB will probably fully compete for the WDC next year) than being in the Ferrari/Leclerc situation. Hack, if Verstappen starts missing the beat (not likely), there might even be chance he'd become a bit of a dark horse and have a freak shot at a fifth title.
- Get in a car that better suits you.

All three changes can be accomplished by switching to Red Bull if he can make the mental switch. Loose "the finger" and enjoy racing in a top level car like Raikkonen did at Ferrari.

For the contractual/financial angle. I expect that if Ferrari and Vettel conclude that this shouldn't continue like this, an agreement can be settled upon. Ricciardo is a better choice for Ferrari and Vettel is the better choice for Red Bull (again if he can get his head around it). Both teams can take the fight harder to Mercedes. It would be close but Mercedes would have the weakest line up of the three.

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Old 9 Sep 2019, 08:33 (Ref:3926832)   #93
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Is he F1 material? The F1 grid is getting stronger the last few years. I'm not sure on the 2nd Williams seat.
Latifi? I dont know. Is de Vries? Is Kubica?

Latifi is linked to Williams this year (reserve driver? development driver?), so they know his qualities. Furthermore he has enough superlicense points if he can keep his current position in the F2 standings, and he has cash available.
IMO, that seems a more logical choice than de Vries from Williams' point of view.
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Old 9 Sep 2019, 08:40 (Ref:3926834)   #94
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Latifi? I dont know. Is de Vries? Is Kubica?

Latifi is linked to Williams this year (reserve driver? development driver?), so they know his qualities. Furthermore he has enough superlicense points if he can keep his current position in the F2 standings, and he has cash available.
IMO, that seems a more logical choice than de Vries from Williams' point of view.

Kubica, was a feel good story everyone in F1 wanted to happen. It is not kind to say, but he is not the driver he used to be.


Maybe Grosjean could find refuge at Williams?
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Old 9 Sep 2019, 08:54 (Ref:3926836)   #95
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I suspect Ferrari may need to keep Seb for next year with no obvious replacement available. Unlesss he walks in which case they will have to put someone in for a year or two until the right one is free.

Whatever the case Ferrari and Seb cannot continue like this, he is very erratic and inconsistent.

Kimi or even Hulk would be a safe pair of hands to play anchor man for Leclerc?

Then they might sign Riccardo or even Sainz for 21.

Then there's the elephant in the room also known as F. Alonso Diaz.
Would Ferrari see him as a better option than Vettel as an equal no.1 with Charles, or would it be risking disruption as Alonso would surely only be interested in chasing a title himself rather than working with the team.
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Old 9 Sep 2019, 09:20 (Ref:3926839)   #96
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I predicted a little while back that Vettel would retire at the end of this season, and Monza hasn't done anything to change my mind. He is only prepared to be a No 1. That's what he thought he had (well, officially it's what he did have) at Ferrari at the beginning of this year, but Leclerc's skills and his own mistakes have determined otherwise. He left Red Bull because he felt threatened by Riciardo so he's unlikely to return there alongside Verstappen (unless his pension pot is not sufficiently full yet). He's not a Kimi; he won't go to a lesser team for the fun of it.

So Ferrari need another driver for 2020. On the face of it Riciardo would be a good choice but he is generally thought to have left Red Bull because Verstappen was putting him in the shadows. Why would he want to go up alongside Leclerc? ItIsI is doing fantastic things this year but he is still inexperienced (measured by F1 races started) so it may be too early to bring in another inexperienced driver underneath him. Raikkonen has been prepared to be a No 2 before and he would be a safe (and popular) pair of hands.

What will Red Bull do? It's early days but Albon is looking OK. If he can keep it up and get rid of the odd lacklustre moment, he will make an excellent 2020 No 2 and the problem is solved. If not, Red Bull will be scratching around to find someone while Toro Rosso will be trying to fit three drivers into two seats. I would quite like to see the Hulk get the seat if they push Albon back out, but he may not be prepared to wait until the end of the year for a decision. At least, not if another opportunity like Haas is open to him.
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Old 9 Sep 2019, 09:44 (Ref:3926842)   #97
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Originally Posted by broadrun96 View Post
Does Ferrari have another kid in the wings to place at Alfa with Kimi?
They have a few kids, but either they lack superlicence points (M. Schumacher, G. Alesi) or they are just too young and inexperienced (R. Shwartzman, M. Armstrong -- both will have enough points though)
Shwartzman is interesting. If he wins the F3 championship, he will have enough points in 2021, even in he fails to score any new ones in 2020 (Of the 69 he will have at the end of 2019 only 12 will expire after the 2020 season)
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Old 9 Sep 2019, 09:50 (Ref:3926843)   #98
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I don't think the kids are the solution. Don't think Alesi and Schumacher are right for F1 now, we'll have to see who comes in next season. I don't think F3 champions are the answer, we'll have to see who does well in F2 in 2020
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Old 9 Sep 2019, 10:05 (Ref:3926851)   #99
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Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist View Post
I predicted a little while back that Vettel would retire at the end of this season, and Monza hasn't done anything to change my mind. He is only prepared to be a No 1. That's what he thought he had (well, officially it's what he did have) at Ferrari at the beginning of this year, but Leclerc's skills and his own mistakes have determined otherwise. He left Red Bull because he felt threatened by Riciardo so he's unlikely to return there alongside Verstappen (unless his pension pot is not sufficiently full yet). He's not a Kimi; he won't go to a lesser team for the fun of it.
A few points:

- 2020 I don't expect Red Bull to be the lesser team. Honda will be up there and the chassis will most like be fully competitive again after 2019 aero rule change set back.
- The situation at Ferrari with Leclerc is only going to get worse. If he can't get his head around not being No1 all the time there is no place for him to be successful from 2020.


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So Ferrari need another driver for 2020. On the face of it Riciardo would be a good choice but he is generally thought to have left Red Bull because Verstappen was putting him in the shadows. Why would he want to go up alongside Leclerc? ItIsI is doing fantastic things this year but he is still inexperienced (measured by F1 races started) so it may be too early to bring in another inexperienced driver underneath him. Raikkonen has been prepared to be a No 2 before and he would be a safe (and popular) pair of hands.
Ricciardo was giving Verstappen a very decent run for his money and I consider Verstappen still a notch above Leclerc. Kimi would be a good 2nd next to Leclerc, but he seems to enjoy the more relaxed environment at Sauber.

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What will Red Bull do? It's early days but Albon is looking OK. If he can keep it up and get rid of the odd lacklustre moment, he will make an excellent 2020 No 2 and the problem is solved.
In my book Albon isn't looking okay at all. It may have been sour grapes from Kvyat at Spa, but he was right, that wasn't at all that impressive. At Monza finishing behind both Renault's when Verstappen was doing Leclerc laptimes doesn't make him look good either. He need to up his game if he wants to be that 2nd driver Red Bull needs for 2020.

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If not, Red Bull will be scratching around to find someone while Toro Rosso will be trying to fit three drivers into two seats. I would quite like to see the Hulk get the seat if they push Albon back out, but he may not be prepared to wait until the end of the year for a decision. At least, not if another opportunity like Haas is open to him.
Marko has been quite negative about Hulkenberg. In fact he has ruled him out considering him not sufficiently better than their current options.
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Old 9 Sep 2019, 10:17 (Ref:3926853)   #100
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I think TrapezeArtist is not referring to Red Bull as 'a lesser team'', but any team not Mercedes - Ferrari - Red Bull.
He's wondering if Vettel would be prepared to fight for 7th race in - race out without better prospects barring mishaps to the 3 teams mentioned above.
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