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Old 22 Mar 2004, 15:26 (Ref:915226)   #26
Tiptop
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Tiptop should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Red

JV was mis-guided by his manager POLLOCK in trying to lead a team especially as most of the Williams team were against him before he left!

Pollock's name should be re-named with a B
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 15:26 (Ref:915227)   #27
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spider should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridspider should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Nail on the head Bulldog!
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 15:33 (Ref:915248)   #28
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Red should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
hrug: I don't know about that, driving good cars is one thing, leading a team is another one. Problem is that JV didn't even try to do that and...... someone merge this thread with the other one.

Back on topic; coincidence or not, but BAR is doing good. Not sure if that's because of Sato coming in or JV leaving, but definitelly something has changed. To good.
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 15:56 (Ref:915276)   #29
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Re: Re: Villenuve vs Sato

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr V
Oh no, not another Villeneuve thread



What race were you watching?, Sato was in a points scoring position when he blew up 3 laps from the end. that is why he's 2 laps down on the Toyotas
Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to watch the race at all. Was out of town all weekend (Forced to watch the Nextel Cup race ) w/out speedvision and checked the results when i got back. Only the US Grand Prix is televised on the major/non-digital cable channels here in the states. But Formula1.com says nothing about a blown engine so w/out seeing anything one would think it was a **** poor drive.

Obviously the fact they have more money now that he's gone is a good thing for the team and yes it's showing. I was meerly aiming at looking at how the team is performing and speculation on how they would do if he was still there. Hats off to them for doing as well as they are however IMO they could have done better with a different driver.

On the contrary I'm no more of a Villenuve fan as I am of TGF. However I found it quite humorous that i had to scroll through 20 some-odd posts to find 2 or 3 meaningful posts. Seems most of you hate him so much that whenever someone mentions him it's almost like taking his name in vain. No wait that would be worship....

Last edited by dcp2685; 22 Mar 2004 at 15:57.
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 16:21 (Ref:915304)   #30
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Your correct dcp, there seems to be a huge amount of JV bashers here. However, there are also a lot of outspoken JV fans who seem to be very easily insulted, which results in threads that turn into slanging matches.

I remember getting a lot of stick last year for merley comparing Barichello favoribly to JV. I don't think fans of many other drivers are so eaisly insulted (in my experience!)
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 16:24 (Ref:915309)   #31
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ASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
You think?
I don't waste my time and effort on them anymore.
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 16:43 (Ref:915337)   #32
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BARrouette should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
JV experience will be miss at BAR, remember he did a lot of work to make a competitive car and i think that he deserve a bit of respect.

I am shure that a lot of anti-JV will say that JV is not the one that bring the sucess to the team but he did his part(a verry good one)and now it's Button and sato and Michelin to finish the job.

Sato well...he should be replace soon.
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 16:59 (Ref:915366)   #33
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hamsmith should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
maby not replaced. but i agree HE SHOULD BE replaced. Dave Richards who thinks he is so beyond being god had admited Sato needs to stay on the track a little bit more and is going to take Sato under his wing and help him understand the car a little more based on DR's own golfing experience!?! and when he is finnished doing that maby he will cure the world of cancer.

www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=26482&s=5
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 17:13 (Ref:915390)   #34
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Rennen should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRennen should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRennen should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRennen should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
B.A.R. needed a fresh start...and it's going well, rejoice at that.

Apparently Taku spun on his qualifying lap because he was trying to take that section 'flat' for the first time... having not tried it out in practice first!

I would have passed this and other gems on in my 'watching on TV with a driver' thread, but they shut me down for appearing too smug! Doh!

Last edited by Rennen; 22 Mar 2004 at 17:14.
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 17:34 (Ref:915415)   #35
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f1truestory has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Sato was there bcos of Honda wants a japanese driver in?

They can have Villenuve instead of sato, but will have without an engine :P
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 17:40 (Ref:915426)   #36
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DriverT should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Every time Villeneuve's name is mentioned, the insults come flying. For God's sake...
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 17:52 (Ref:915434)   #37
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Kirk has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
It's ok. DR has vowed to give him lessons.

But seriously. Point 1: Give the guy a chance. He has struggled a bit but at least he is not floating around the track like some other drivers (whos names I will not mention).
Point 2: It is unfair to try and compare Sato to Villeneuve and frankly it is insulting to Jacques.
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 19:46 (Ref:915565)   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by AdamAshmore
...and BAR would have had Villeneuve's development skills over the winter too.
Ah I've got you. You mean the bit between resting and skiing with Craig don't you?

Extremely useful!
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 19:54 (Ref:915584)   #39
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Glen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I find it very ironic that the complaining about reliability which was used to muddy the argument about Jaques' 2003 season is conveniently ignored by those that wish to run Sato down. He would certainly have scored points had the Honda held together, and I can't honestly see how much more could be asked of him at this stage. Apart from not binning your qualifying lap, but even the sublime Alonso managed that faux pas.

Last edited by Glen; 22 Mar 2004 at 19:55.
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 20:18 (Ref:915613)   #40
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Another Villeneuve thread.

My eyes are getting heavy reading it.....

My opinion? Well, Villeneuves a better driver possibly, he has a world title, but the better choice for this year is Sato. Just as quick, just rather rough edged at the minute. I rate him though. And if Jacques had stayed on, his whingeing and destabilising attitude may have ruined BAR's start to the season.

Remember, Villeneuve Snr. (yes, the genuine great in the Villeneuve family) was a rough diamond to begin with. In the end, he should have been a multiple champ. Maybe Sato could follow in his footsteps!!!!

Last edited by Knowlesy; 22 Mar 2004 at 20:18.
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 20:23 (Ref:915620)   #41
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Here Here Glen, Sato did a fine job. He started nearly as well as Alonso and was on the pace. Give him time and I am sure he will make a better, he did outqualify Fisi when he was at Jordan (That sounds familiar!!)
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 20:29 (Ref:915628)   #42
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Jordi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJordi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It's not as simple as it is being made.

1. It's early in the season.

2. I doubt that had Jacques been wanted at BAR, he'd be earning all that money. So the money factor for 2004 would probably be out of the question anyway.

3. Jacques is not the devil, though. He and Button ended up having a friendly teammate relationship. The problems were between David Richards and Villeneuve. I doubt the whole team was hoping to see Jacques go, and I doubt the atmosphereis much better just because DR says so.
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Old 22 Mar 2004, 20:55 (Ref:915663)   #43
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Son of Jor-El should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by hamsmith
maby not replaced. but i agree HE SHOULD BE replaced. Dave Richards who thinks he is so beyond being god had admited Sato needs to stay on the track a little bit more and is going to take Sato under his wing and help him understand the car a little more based on DR's own golfing experience!?! and when he is finnished doing that maby he will cure the world of cancer.
A DR bash perhaps?! A bit unnecessary methinks.
By the evidence, Dave Richards is doing a grand job at the moment. IMO It was a logical choice to have Sato as the second driver, Honda links, test driver etc. Davidson would have been preferable but Honda may not have been so keen if one of their countrymen didn't have the drive. A little cynical I know, but that's my opinion.

By the way, and with all respect, cancer isn't something to joke about.
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 01:40 (Ref:915928)   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kirk
Point 2: It is unfair to try and compare Sato to Villeneuve and frankly it is insulting to Jacques.
Precisely why I have chose to ignore this thread as irrelevant.
There is no comparison between a WDC and a guy who has done...well...nothing!
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Doesn't it seem sad that drivers like Fisichella, Coultard, Barrichello, and Ralf all have secure seats in F1, despite having had race winning cars for many more seasons than Jacques, yet failing to chalk up as many wins as he (let alone a WDC) that it is Jacques who doesn't have a drive in F1??? Sad indeed.
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 03:50 (Ref:916023)   #45
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I find it very hard to believe that some of you are associating the improvement in BAR's performance with the departure of Jacques. That is the most absurd theory I've heard for quite some time.

Clearly, the management influence of David Richards, engineering expertise of PRODRIVE and the extra resources of Honda are starting to pay dividends. If Jacques was still in the team, I'm sure there would have been two BAR's at the front of the field. In fact, it is a point of much irony that the team is starting to reach its potential only after Jacques departed (and must be a great disappointment for the man himself) - but to attribute a cause and effect to that is naieve and foolish in the extreme.

The fundamental competitiveness of an F1 car is due to so much more than the influence of the driver. Even the testing role is now subordinated to some great extent by the powerful simulation technologies available.

That the team is reportedly happier now with the departure of Jacques is in no small part the making of David Richards - for he first instigated the rot as a negotiating ploy. However, if you asked a team member whether they'd prefer a driver who is easy to get on with or a driver who is (say) 3 tenths faster per lap, the answer is clear (this is F1 after all) and a grumpy driver is always acceptable so long as he is fast (and anybody who doubts Jacques inate speed knows not what the @#$% he is looking at and should take up another interest pronto).
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 15:04 (Ref:916575)   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by GTV27
I find it very hard to believe that some of you are associating the improvement in BAR's performance with the departure of Jacques. That is the most absurd theory I've heard for quite some time.
I guess you get us all wrong. I said that now the money used to pay Jacques will be invested in development.
It's like taking TGF to Minardi and letting him expect to gain lots of money no matter what happens with the car. JV should have been asked to invert in the team development and not earning a salary but sponsors. Anyone knows A.J Foyt?
Quote:
Originally posted by GTV27

The fundamental competitiveness of an F1 car is due to so much more than the influence of the driver.
Yeah, it's about team work and Money management. (Toyota, anyone?)
Quote:
Originally posted by GTV27

That the team is reportedly happier now with the departure of Jacques is in no small part the making of David Richards - for he first instigated the rot as a negotiating ploy. However, if you asked a team member whether they'd prefer a driver who is easy to get on with or a driver who is (say) 3 tenths faster per lap, the answer is clear (this is F1 after all) and a grumpy driver is always acceptable so long as he is fast .
LOL
Remember the Senna-Prost McLaren differences? Le professeur got a lot of enemies in his team and his departure to Ferrari was due to what?
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 18:21 (Ref:916838)   #47
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Precisely why I have chose to ignore this thread as irrelevant.
There is no comparison between a WDC and a guy who has done...well...nothing!
Ignoring the thread didn't last very long Teddy
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 19:24 (Ref:916935)   #48
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santori should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think a lot of BAR's improvement is down not to more money but to running on tyres which aren't developed specially for another team.
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 21:48 (Ref:917117)   #49
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neilap should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
JV has the experience and that counts for a lot. Sato will never have the experience without racing so its unfair to judge him in his 2nd season racing against a veteran in the game. IMO Sato is every bit as quick he just does not have the seat time. Seat time or the lack there of is the Sato's biggest weakness. Someone said that Sato and Massa were not performing but Massa actually has been faster than his teammate in the first two races. Think about that. Sato has been pretty close to Button on pace just not on consistency. In the first race he got a raw deal from the start. His aggression (again because of seat time) got the best of him in quali and during the race. I admire the fact that he races hard. He may never be as skilled as MS but he does put all he has into the craft. I hope he will be rewarded as Button was during this season.

http://sohc.vtec.net//article_files/...R_Malaysia.PDF


The above is a comparison someone from www.vtec.net made of lap times between Sato and Button and other drivers. Sato is not lost, not in the wilderness nor clueless. He is pushing hard and that is the only way to excell.
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Old 24 Mar 2004, 05:17 (Ref:917418)   #50
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golem should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
JV was actually fairly canny, but a bit pompous too. Hist undoing.
Sato V JV? I'd pick Sato for this season, as BAR have an experianced driver already in Button. Sato has lap pace, testing will improve that a bit but not his weakness. He just needs a calmer race head, and only race experiance on the track will do it.
As for the improvement in BAR, I'd put it down to DR's team now being settled in under prodrive, Honda getting really fired up, and more than any other single factor, the switch to Michelin tyres from Bridgestone's designed first and foremost with Ferrari in mind.

Edit: Oh yeah, when you read that graph, remember, Taku was on a two stopper and so fairly heavy on fuel and most likely running slightly differant tyres and setup to allow for this.

Last edited by golem; 24 Mar 2004 at 05:22.
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