Who is going to beat Michael Schumacher?

[tally-bally-ho]

Apologies in advance if this thread sounds somewhat unhopeful. It isn't meant to annoy fans of the drivers mentioned, or indeed fans of F1. Its really just my point of view.

The thing is, I'm struggling to see where the competition is going to come from between now and when Michael retires, in terms of a better driver out-racing him over the course of a season.

Alonso's spin in qualifying on Saturday, Kimi's spin on the warm up lap on Sunday, and Montoya's spin in Oz last year (plus he is ridiculously hot-headed) aren't exactly Michael-esque traits are they?

Fisi can't beat Massa. Massa is a very, very rough diamond.

I could mention every driver, but you get the idea.

Of course if Michael does hang around long enough to be challenged properly by a driver on his level it will be fantastic.

Please, someone convince me that there is a driver out there who can seriously be considered as real Michael-beating material, and who will be given the opportunity to do so in terms of finance/sponsorship. You see, I've read far too much meaningless hype and seen too much evidence to the contrary about the current crop to believe any of them can do it.

I'm not interested in the posssibility of technical advantages beating Michael, such as tyres, just drivers.

Are we really just waiting for the man to retire so we can watch 2nd bests race each other, knowing that Michael could just turn up one day and beat them again?

[Redblurr]

No one.

[ASCII Man]

I won't say the name of the driver most likely able to beat Michael in fear of being verbally abused.

[santori]

I wouldn't hold those mistakes against them to that extent. Michael makes a few, too.
But even if new drivers take over only when Michael has retired, that doesn't necessarily make them lesser - it often seems to happen that the dominant driver only emerges after the previous one has retired.

[Dan Fielden]

Don't fret for Dan is here with words of comfort.
Several people can beat schumacher, subject to reliability.
Alonso,Raikkonen, Coulthard and Montoya will all be there when chmachers age gets to him mid season and he begins to put a few wheels on the grass in qualy or overshoots the first corner or maybe even retire.
He will be beaten. You can't win every race throughout the season clearly no-one has in the history of the sport and this year will be no different.

And now i elude to the fact that all of what i have just said is clutching at straws a bit as far as f1 fans are concerned.

[Damon]

Surely that word "Coulthard" was typo Dan?!

[Kirk]

In equal machinery, I'd like to say Kimi will have the resolve to do so one day (however that day will likely be after MS has retired) and perhaps even JPM, however I doubt it. There is only one guy: Jacques Villeneuve!!

[Damon]

noooooooooooo! Now look what you've done!

[Bononi]

Oh my... and I thought ASCII Man was being gentle to us...

[Knowlesy]

*bangs head against wall*

















*repeatedly*

[Dani Filth]

thinks .. hard ...... very hard .. head starting to hurt ... .. still no answer ... i give up

[Dutton]

Well, I suppose any of the drivers in the top teams, given the right circumstances, could indeed do it.

Their problem, of course, is that Michael has proven himself a difficult man to beat.

[Raven]

It's really more the question of who can beat the engineering, design and mechanical excellence of Brawn/Byrne/Stepney.

As we saw in 2003, if the car isn't the best, Schumacher is beatable. He can also over-drive and make mistakes when his back is up against the wall - just as we're seeing most drivers doing at the minute in an effort to keep up. With the F2004, MS can drive well within himself and still come out on top.

[grumpy1]

Kirk in the words of a tennis great "You can't be serious".
If the teams pull their collective digets out and get their cars to the level Ferrari have then the following would match it with MS.
Williams JPM
MacLaren Kimi
Renualt Alonso
BAR Button
Jaguar Webber
I don't think anyone else has the coconuts to try.
DC will go at it hard on some tracks but is not in the same league anymore.

The Grumpy1

[bluebeard]

theres more than 1 driver there capable of beating TGF...... given equal machinery, IMO thats where the major difference lies

[Dani Filth]

even barichello beats Schu in some races . maybe 2-3 times a season .. i would not put my money on somebody else doing it more often .

[Kirk]

Originally posted by grumpy1

Williams JPM
MacLaren Kimi
Renualt Alonso
BAR Button
Jaguar Webber
I don't think anyone else has the coconuts to try.
DC will go at it hard on some tracks but is not in the same league anymore.

The Grumpy1

All those drivers are good in their own right but it takes more, much more than talent to drive wheel to wheel with Schumi. It's more psycological than anything else:
JPM - not patient enough, hot-headed
Kimi - one day maybe, but not yet, but best bet of grid
Alonso - also one day maybe but still too inconsistent
Button - not nearly aggressive enough at the moment
Webber - talks a good game but is still unproven
JV - been there, done that and MS could suffer a little psycological problem of his own racing him in equal machinery.
IMO

[Testure]

Originally posted by tally-bally-ho
I'm not interested in the posssibility of technical advantages beating Michael, such as tyres, just drivers.

Are we really just waiting for the man to retire so we can watch 2nd bests race each other, knowing that Michael could just turn up one day and beat them again?

If you're discounting any technical advantages (and in real life, we can't, of course), then, no, I really don't think that there's a single driver on the grid right now that can beat Michael over the course of a season. Races, yes, but championships? No - by the time Kimi, Fernando, Juan-Pablo, Mark, etc. have come close to his level of consistency, the man himself will surely have retired.

He doesn't win every race, he makes mistakes and sometimes, in an equal car, Rubens beats him. Over the course of an entire season, though, I think he's unstoppable. It doesn't always make for easy viewing and we can gripe about it plenty, but - he's pretty incredible.

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by Kirk
All those drivers are good in their own right but it takes more, much more than talent to drive wheel to wheel with Schumi. It's more psycological than anything else:
JPM - not patient enough, hot-headed
Kimi - one day maybe, but not yet, but best bet of grid
Alonso - also one day maybe but still too inconsistent
Button - not nearly aggressive enough at the moment
Webber - talks a good game but is still unproven
JV - been there, done that and MS could suffer a little psycological problem of his own racing him in equal machinery.
IMO

well said Kirk!

Only thing I'd disagree with is that I feel Webber is the best bet of those in F1, not Kimi, I think he will have the stuff fairly soon! Other than that the only driver who could do it right now in equal machinery sadly doesn't even have a drive...and F1 is such a joke because of it!

(and before any of you smart arses chime in, yes I'm talking about Villeneuve)

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by Raven
It's really more the question of who can beat the engineering, design and mechanical excellence of Brawn/Byrne/Stepney.

As we saw in 2003, if the car isn't the best, Schumacher is beatable. He can also over-drive and make mistakes when his back is up against the wall - just as we're seeing most drivers doing at the minute in an effort to keep up. With the F2004, MS can drive well within himself and still come out on top.

Your quite right about the GA2003 not being the best, but what I think you fail to take into account about 03, was the enormous pressure that Schummy was under. The enormity of trying to break Fangio's record was tremendous, as most people thought it was simply an un-breakable record! And of course many people did not want to see him break it.

It was no doubt a tough year, where he lost a few races, and the car wasn't the best, but the biggest factor I think, was the pressure. This year there is no pressure, and you can see the difference.

Nobody, IMHO, on the grid right now, is ready to beat this legend.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by TeddyG

(and before any of you smart arses chime in, yes I'm talking about Villeneuve)

Really!? :confused:

I had no idea!

[grumpy1]

You people keep talking about JV but you forget that he will have been away for a year and that is a lifetime in F1.Granted JV was a WDC (and deserved it)but if JV was that good he would have done better at BAR.Being beaten by his team mate (Button) was not good for his CV.Who would want him anyway.Williams no(bad blood) BAR (you know the story) MacLaren(all full up) Jag(not enough money to pay his exorbidant price).The only one I can see wanting him would be Toyota and he would be a good team mate for Ralf as they are both (well you know)

The Grumpy1

[dcp2685]

I know a lot of people say Webber is unproven but come one. The guy put a Jaguar on the front row next to schumy and ahead of everyone else including the infamous Ferrari of Barichello! The problem w/ the Jaguar is the tire graining and them blowing their rear tires in the first 5 laps. Put Webber in a Williams and i'd be willing to bet he'd give Montoya right now a good run....if he didn't beat him. He's still young and he has some things to learn but you have to admit he's a fantastic driver.

[dcp2685]

Originally posted by dcp2685
I know a lot of people say Webber is unproven but come on. The guy put a Jaguar on the front row next to schumy and ahead of everyone else including the infamous Ferrari of Barichello! The problem w/ the Jaguar is the tire graining and them blowing their rear tires in the first 5 laps. Put Webber in a Williams and i'd be willing to bet he'd give Montoya right now a good run....if he didn't beat him. He's still young and he has some things to learn but you have to admit he's a fantastic driver.

[Led ZeppF1]

Originally posted by santori
But even if new drivers take over only when Michael has retired, that doesn't necessarily make them lesser - it often seems to happen that the dominant driver only emerges after the previous one has retired.

Absolutely. Even Michael get his first title without beat the reigning champion. Alain Prost was retired, and Ayrton Senna (we all know)...