Formula Atlantic etc (was 'Chevron B29s') - Page 17

Chris Townsend · 15 Feb 2005, 18:36 (Ref:1226467)

Over on racecarsdirect.com there is a Chevron B29 for sale described as 'ex Wheatcroft'.
From observations in 1975 we know this to have been 29-75-04, which we also know was then sold to Brett Riley, from whom it passed to Ken Bailey and thence into Ireland and was used by first Eddie Jordan and then Vivian Candy. By the early 80s this car was being raced in Monoposto by Terry Cole.
However, I have been told by a very good source that the car was subsequently broken for spares, with the tub going to UK Customs and Excise for a secret exercise. [Perhaps one related to Tony Dean's enterprise a few years earlier in using his B28 to transport cigars to the UK].
One can only wonder at the extraordinary magnetism that the parts of old racing cars have for each other, to be reunited after all these years...

Chris

Dan Rear · 18 Feb 2005, 13:18 (Ref:1229305)

Given that we use the good old 'B29 thread' as a general Atlantic one, has anyone ssen the thread on the other place re US/Canadian Atlantics in 1983? There are some results from that series which throw up some interesting cars for the time, ie non-RT4s. I notice a few Tigas, a Dart, a Lola (presumably a T460), some older Marches, including whats described as a 782. Anyone seen the thread and have ideas about these cars ?

Chris Townsend · 18 Feb 2005, 13:31 (Ref:1229314)

Indeed I have seen it Dan, and have lots of ideas and even a few identifications!
My own records for Canadian and USA races are coming along nicely [and indeed so too the odd race in Venezuala and Colombia]. I expect to be publishing much of the material for the 1970s soon on Allen's website.
I will get around to the 1980s but I have to say that the predominance of Ralt RT4s does make them rather less interesting, just as ground effects destroyed spectacular racing. SCCA races of the era are almost more fun for the historian because almost anything can show up. [This is also true of the decline of Atlantic in the mid 80s, towards the end of the BDA era, when people show up at their local champ race and try to qualify a Lola T240 or something]. I guess the defining image of Atlantic [and indeed F2] for me will always be Rosberg driving a Chevron with the same alacrity that Ari Vatanen displayed with an RS1800 Escort, and getting it round a corner at much the same angle...

Dan Rear · 18 Feb 2005, 14:00 (Ref:1229342)

Chris, I suspected you may already be on the case !

Couldn't agree more re the RT4s, much as I admire Ron T, his supereffiency with the RT3/4/5/6 series did rather destroy those formulae for a while in the 80s. All part of the increasing "professionalism" I guess. Back to that thread, do you know how many Tigas were made and raced in FAt. I know of 2 over here, 2 for Costanzo down under, 1 in the Far East, and only one in the US. Obviously I was well out, in the US at least.

As for Keke, wouldn't it have been great to see him over here, perhaps in 1974-75, taking on Jim C, Brise, Jones, John Nich etc, in an Opert car.

Chris Townsend · 18 Feb 2005, 14:28 (Ref:1229372)

Tigas in Atlantic - shall we explode a myth about Andretti? There isn't a chassis number 2 FA Tiga [Tiga's numbering system worked like Ralt's, sequentially regardless of model]

1983 USA there is one car [FA82-211 I think] for Garvin Brown and initially driven by Mike Rosen till a Ralt shows up. This then [I think] becomes Ed Pimm's 'Sleep Cheap' car. This is the car [211] used by Hubert Phipps in early 83 in NZ races
Peter Hastrup also has an FA82, William Ayoub's car is also an FA82 and as they don't appear together I think they might be one and the same. One of these two cars is presumably the source of Damon Meek's FA82 in 1985 SCCA
1983 UK there is one car, so far, an FA82 used by Neil Crang. [Number anyone?]
1983 Australia Alfredo Costanzo has what appears to be a genuine FA83

1982 USA Garvin Brown has a new FA82 at Long Beach - probably 211. This is the Andretti car, which qualifies 12th and gets stuck in gear on the grid. Hubert Phipps takes the car over at Mexico City and uses it for rest of season. Except perhaps at Westwood, where Danny Sullivan races a Tiga. I'm guessing that with Sullivan's Can Am connections to Garvin Brown this was one of their cars, but by now there might be two FA82s in the camp.
1982 Australia, Costanzo has both an FA81 and FA82. At Calder AGP he uses the FA81 and Neil Crang is in an FA82 [though this might be a car out of the British series]
1982 UK. Driller Sheldon has FA81-164 updated to FA82 spec. Neil Crang debuts a new FA82 at Silverstone in May.

1981 Australia Alf Costanzo has FA81-161 the first Atlantic Tiga built though not the first to race.
1981 UK Ian Taylor debuts FA81-164 [the second Atlantic Tiga] at Brands in March [and boy did it rain]
This car goes to the Far East races end of season with John Sheldon and comes back again.
I have no record of any Tigas in USA

I think the total build is
FA81 - 161
FA81 - 164
FA82 - 211 Garvin Brown
FA82 - Second Garvin Brown car
FA82 - Costanzo possibly [maybe just updated 81]
FA82 - Crang [British series then AGP]
FA83 - Costanzo
and that's it.

Chris

David McKinney · 18 Feb 2005, 16:12 (Ref:1229447)

My (perhaps confusing) note on the Phipps NZ car says:
“An interesting newcomer to New Zealand was the latest-model Tiga, in the hands of Hubert Phipps. Entered by Kiwi Dave White, chief mechanic for the Garvin Brown team in the United States... Phipps has been racing an ‘82 model in the States and was confident the newer car, which appeared to be little different apart from having a new nose, was a Ralt-beater. For the record, the dark blue car’s chassis number is FA82-211”
- New Zealand Motoring News 21 January 1983

My report of the 1981 AGP mentions two FA81s entered by Alan Hamilton (Porsche Cars Australia). One was the red car driven by Costanzo but the other, for Geoffrey Brabham, wasn’t completed in time. Presumably at least one of these became an FA82...

I can’t put my hands on my 1982 AGP report which is a pity, as I remember talking to Neil Crang about his car, and thought he said it was brand new. I probably noted the chassis no., too...

Chris Townsend · 18 Feb 2005, 16:26 (Ref:1229466)

David

Thanks, your report on the Phipps car suggests that it was the second of the Garvin Brown cars from 82, and therefore not the Andretti car at Long Beach! The Costanzo car at 81 AGP was 161 [that's the source of my number]. Might the Sheldon car have gone on to Australia for the AGP [as many other cars did from Macau that year] and been intended for Brabham?

82 AGP I was able to work out the chassis number of every RT4 there except Miedecke and Creasy [incidentally is this the same guy who raced a BT30 in UK in early 70s?] but could really use Crang's car!

Chris

David McKinney · 18 Feb 2005, 17:36 (Ref:1229540)

I believe the Hamilton/Costanzo team retained both FA81s for two or three years, one as a spare, and possibly one becoming an FA82. Which would tend to rule out the possibility of it going elsewhere.
On the other hand, Neil Crang was a partner (or at least a director) of Tiga, so could have been on hand to supervise any shuffling to and fro.
Can't help with your RT4 numbers except to say that Miedecke's 1982 car was the one he had raced in 1981; he had a different one in 1983 and a third in 1984...

David McKinney · 18 Feb 2005, 17:39 (Ref:1229544)

Oh, and I don't think Australian Bob Creasy was the same person as the UK BT30 driver Bill Creasy

Milan Fistonic · 18 Feb 2005, 19:49 (Ref:1229634)

Quote:

Originally Posted by David McKinney

My (perhaps confusing) note on the Phipps NZ car says:
“An interesting newcomer to New Zealand was the latest-model Tiga, in the hands of Hubert Phipps. Entered by Kiwi Dave White, chief mechanic for the Garvin Brown team in the United States... Phipps has been racing an ‘82 model in the States and was confident the newer car, which appeared to be little different apart from having a new nose, was a Ralt-beater. For the record, the dark blue car’s chassis number is FA82-211”
- New Zealand Motoring News 21 January 1983

My report of the 1981 AGP mentions two FA81s entered by Alan Hamilton (Porsche Cars Australia). One was the red car driven by Costanzo but the other, for Geoffrey Brabham, wasn’t completed in time. Presumably at least one of these became an FA82...

I can’t put my hands on my 1982 AGP report which is a pity, as I remember talking to Neil Crang about his car, and thought he said it was brand new. I probably noted the chassis no., too...

I can't find any reference to Crang's car in your report, David.

But there is this list of RT4 chassis numbers.

Chassis, 1982 AGP, 1981 AGP
252, Miedecke, Miedecke
255, Bowe, Bowe
258, Davison, Allison
261, Stobart, Moreno
262, Laffite, Brabham
263, Prost, Jones
264, Smith, Smith
265, Revell, Piquet
267, McMillan, -
269, Radisich, -
273, Hanger, Laffite
274, Cesario, O'Brien
276, Handford, Perkins
279, Creasy, -
280, Macarthur, -
331, Jones, -
348, Piquet, -
351, Watson, -
352, Moreno, -
353, O'Brien, -

The car Nelson Piquet drove was borrowed from Teddy Yip's Theodore team, being their spare car for Macau. After its accident there was a change of plans, and the Moreno chassis will be sent on to Asia instead. Piquet's car will be rebuilt, and probably run by Moreno in the New Zealand Grand Prix next January.

David McKinney · 18 Feb 2005, 20:10 (Ref:1229658)

Thanks Milan

Bryan Miller · 18 Feb 2005, 21:56 (Ref:1229757)

Tiga cars and Australian Grand Prix .

1981 , 8th Nov.

Alf Costanzo Tiga FA 811-161.

1982 , 7th , Nov.

Alf Costanzo Tiga FA81 -183.
Neil Crang Tiga FA82- 200.

Creasy's RT4 confirmed at #279.

We now have 4 Tiga Atlantics here , due to Melbournite David Doughtfire bringing 2 x cars in last year as a job lot from the states and the two still remaining Costanzo cars , one in Western Australia running in Historic , and the other in Sydney with Ian Ross , this car coming from South Australia to Ian who purchased it to access the Repco V8 with which it was fitted for another of his projects, the Repco having been fitted for hillclimbing.

Bryan.

Chris Townsend · 19 Feb 2005, 10:53 (Ref:1230054)

So Tiga F. Atlantics now look like this, I think. 7 or 8 built

FA81 - 161. Costanzo from new and kept 1982
FA81 - 164 Ian Taylor 1981 then John Sheldon in Far East and UK 1982 season
FA81 - 183 Costanzo spare car kept to 1982

FA82 - 200 Neil Crang, perhaps for UK season as well as AGP
FA82 - the first Garvin Brown car. Probably the car used by Michael Andretti at Long Beach, probably the car used 1983 by Peter Hastrup and William Ayoub, and by Damon Meek 1985
FA82 - 211 The second Garvin Brown car, used by Phipps NZ 1983 and perhaps the car the team ran for Rosen and Pymm in USA that season
FA82 - UNK new for Costanzo 1982, maybe one of the 81 series updated

FA83 - UNK new for Costanzo 1983 maybe another update of older car

Bryan can we get numbers and provenances of those cars imported from the US to Australia?

Regarding RT4s. Many thanks. I have a small problem with Miedecke's cars in 81/82
Ralt sales records show him consigned RT4-256, and this number is confirmed, I think, in Dave McKinney's AGP report for 1981. 1982 we have him in 252 however, a car originally consigned to Steve Shelton in USA. He keeps this car, because David records it as the car Meidecke enters for Danner in NZ in 1983. In 1984, at least some of the time, he runs Watson's RT4-269 [ex Garza and Radisich]. Then he gets RT4-512 in October 84 new from the works.
What happened to 256 at the beginning of 82 that caused him to buy 256?

Chris

Bryan Miller · 19 Feb 2005, 22:25 (Ref:1230392)

Chris,

Answer to one of your questions.

Tiga FA83.

Quote '' The new Tiga FA83 is really an FA 81 based Jim Hardman built tub with the FA 83 rear suspension and FA81 front end '' , this car first turned a wheel on the Wenesday prior to the 49th A.G.P. Nov 18th Calder.

No chassis number recorded in Australian Motor Racing Yearbook.

Jim Hardman told me some years ago he had spent about 2 years with Jo Marquart at Modus , Jim is still very active and as I type rebuiding a Lola T610 sports racing cars for new owner for Phillip Island next weekend.

Bryan Miller · 19 Feb 2005, 22:41 (Ref:1230404)

Sorry , that will not make a lot of sense unless I explain .

Rd. 1 Australian Drivers C/ship at Adelaide 1/7/1984 Costanzo had both cars , FA81 and FA 83 for practice , Costanzo preferred the older car , despite being slightly quicker in the new car , ended up using FA81 in race.
Rd. 2 , Lakeside , 22/7/1984 , Costanzo in FA81 and new teammate Lucio Cesario in FA 83 , but nowhere is a note of chassis number , Costanzo broke driveshaft doing a second burnout to get rear tyres up to temp, and Cesarios rear wing was damaged after an ''off'' .

However Porsche Cars Australia [ sponsor ] had made a statement earlier in the weekend that the FA 83 was fine, but in fact a descision had been made to not run the car again untill something had been done about the lack of rigidity in the tub.

Bryan.

Bryan Miller · 20 Feb 2005, 04:00 (Ref:1230508)

More Tiga,

Rd. 1 1982 National series , Costanzo's car is defined as FA81/82 , however for the rest of the year it is simply called an FA 81.

I n the report for the A.GP. discussing Crang's FA 82 , it was described as little different from the Alan Hamilton owned pair of FA81 's .

However the new to come FA 83 , ''we have been told '' will be completely new.

Andrew Miedecke , 1981 Ralt RT4-252 ,
-----------------, 1982 Ralt RT4-252,
--------------------, 1983 Ralt RT4-252,
Terry Ryan , 1984 Ralt RT4-252.

Closest to this chassis no. is John Bowe's 1st Lucky Nuts sponsored car 255.

Bryan.

Dan Rear · 21 Feb 2005, 14:32 (Ref:1231450)

Bryan, I presume the T610 that Jim H is rebuilding is the ex-Edwards 1982 car that went down to you in about 1984 ? The name Terry Hook rings a bell.

Bryan Miller · 8 Apr 2005, 09:45 (Ref:1273126)

David Doughtfire has advised info re his 2 Tiga's as follows.

Tiga FA82/202 ,

Sold originally to Garvin Browns racing team and was raced professionally in the Pro- Atlantic series by them.
Incidentally Michael Andretti was a driver for Garvin Brown , but David has no proof that Andretti drove this car , although Howden Ganley believes he did.

Car then went to Rick Bowers and Damon Meek .

Then to Ken Ward who raced it in SCCA from 1990 till the car passed to Gary Dormandy who raced the car till the end of 1996 in SCCA in California.

Then purchased from Dormandy by Doughtfire.

Tiga FA 82/209.

Sold originally to Bill Fickling , first race at Riverside , Nov. 1982, wich was a 1 1/2 hour enduro which the car won , co-driver was Pete Hastrup.

Following owners are,

R. Bettendorf.
Steve Hostleter.
Richard Dragovich.
Gaetano Gambrioli.
Mike Spencer-Smith.
Bruce Trenery
Tom Tompkins.

David has all the log books and this car seems to have only had 27 race meetings in it's entire history.

Bryan Miller.

Bryan Miller · 8 Apr 2005, 09:52 (Ref:1273133)

Dan,

Yes it is the ex [ the late ] Terry Hook car.
It seems Peter Harburg has also now purchased the 2nd T610 , and as far as I know , only two were built so he has the entire production , the 2nd car had been in Melbourne in the hands of , I think , Bob Gill for nearly as many years.

Bryan Miller.

Dan Rear · 8 Apr 2005, 12:33 (Ref:1273266)

Bryan, you're spot on re T610s. The second one, ex Cooke-Woods and only raced twice in Group C by them, passed to John Bartlett in early 84 IIRC. He used it pretty extensively in C1 in 1984, then C2 in 85, none too successfully, to say the least. It seemed to get progressively slower and scruffier as time went on !

Re the Tiga F Ats, from Chris's list above, do you think the -211 car was another one still. Assuming -202 is the one Chris describes as 'the first Garvin Brown car', and -211 is the 'second Garvin B car', the Fickling one, -209, must be another distinct one.

It now looks like 3 FA81s, 4 FA82s, plus 1 FA83. I'm assuming the 'FA82' Chris describes as possibly his FA81 updated, was in fact the latter.

Btw, who was Bill Fickling does anyone know. Did he have connexions to Ganley/Tiga, perhaps via a S2000 car ?? Seems odd that he'd order a Tiga rather than an RT4, given how well the RT4 went compared to the Tiga, or perhaps, like us, he just liked some grid-variety !!

Chris Townsend · 8 Apr 2005, 14:56 (Ref:1273374)

Bryan and Dan,

the Garvin Brown car as 202 makes sense - as you'll see I postulated that there was one of unknown number. What I missed was that in his report of the NZ series Dave McKinney commented that Phipps's 211 was new for that series, not the car used in North America. This numbering makes sense with Fickling's SCCA car. So, it is more than likely that, unless Garvin Brown had a spare FA82 bought at the same time as 202, 202 was the Andretti AND Danny Sullivan car from the 1982 US season

Chris

Gale Racing · 25 Apr 2005, 00:06 (Ref:1286414)

Dear Chevron / Atlantic enthusiasts,
To simply add to this thread on B29's I have recently purchased B29-75-05. It was owned by; Albert Poon - KL (April 75 to Dec 76), Chong Boon Seng - Singapore (Dec 76 to Nov 87), Leif Norberg - Malaysia (Nov 87 to Dec 89), Tony Armstrong - AUS (Dec 89 to 97), Geoff Weiland - AUS (97 to Aug 00), Peter Addison - AUS (Aug 00 to May 04), Rob McMillan - AUS (May 04 to April 05), John Gale - AUS (April 05).
I am keen to obtain some photos of the car competing in the mid to late 70's (so I can repaint it in period livery) but also to obtain any race results from that time. I know that it was raced in Batu Tiga, Penang and Macau in 75 to 79.
If anyone is able to assist me with photos (or any other information on teh car) I would be much appreciated.
Regards
John Gale

Bryan Miller · 25 Apr 2005, 01:14 (Ref:1286436)

Wellcome aboard John.

Bryan.

allenbrown · 29 Apr 2005, 08:00 (Ref:1289913)

I thought I'd rescue these March 742 details from TNF and post them where they belong:

Quote:

Originally posted by Adam F
I have some information from the March factory records :-

1974 F2 sales list
Note:- in some cases this lists the country agent (eg Trivellato for Italy) rather than the final team.

1 Japan Red
2 Japan Bright Blue
3 Obermoser White
4 Japan Red
5 Japan White
6 Japan White
7 Trivellato White
8 Trivellato Red
9 Kuwashima Black
10 Obermoser Blue
11 Obermoser White
12 Antar Red
13 Maublanc Bright Blue
14 Maublanc White (Schnitzer)
15 Trivellato Yellow
16 Maublanc White (Schnitzer)
17 Jagermeister Orange
18 ELF Black
19 B.P. (Lafitte) White
20 Trivellato Red
21 Trivellato Red
22 Trivellato Red
23 Harper White
24 B.P. White
25 Harper White
26 Trivellato White
27 Moser White/Orange
28 Jolly Club White (Ford/Holbay)
29 (no customer listed) White
30 Bang & Olufsen White/Red

Other notes (from sporadic records)
5 "reported driven by Vonlanthen at Estoril"
8 "painted orange by Scuderia del Passatore" "raced by Giancarlo Martini"
12 "raced by Jacques Coulon", "Feb 75 converted to F. Atlantic became 75B-U1"
17 "raced by Hans Stuck as Jagermeister works car"
18 "Used by Patrick Depailler to win 1974 F2 Championship", "Nov 75 sold to Maublanc"
21 "driven by Truffo at Estoril March 75"
24 "rebodied with green & yellow special body" "Raced in 1974 by Laffitte" "1975 sold to Siegrist - repainted blue & white"
26 "24 March 75 Turizio - Scuderia Vesuvio"
27 "built for Silvio Moser but never raced by him" "1975 White & gold - Loris Kessel"
28 "raced 1974 and early 1975 by Carlo Giorgio"
30 "used as spare car 1975
U1 "spare (works) team car in black & blue Elf colours" "Dec 1975 sold to David Franklin"

allenbrown · 29 Apr 2005, 08:01 (Ref:1289914)

And also this, from TNF again:

Quote:

Originally posted by starlet
For the anecdote, and if I 'm right, there was an ex works 732 s/n 10, that has been upgraded in '74 specifications for the Brian Lewis Racing, and renumbered by March in 742/10B, as the 742/10 existed already.
The car was entered for Vittorio Brambilla in 1974.