Formula Atlantic etc (was 'Chevron B29s') - Page 18

allenbrown · 29 Apr 2005, 08:06 (Ref:1289915)

And then this, taken from http://www.carclassic.com/stock.asp?StockID=102176.

Quote:

Classic Car Collection's March 732/10
Chassis 732 / 10. Great car with great history: It raced in 1973 with the former Monaco F1 winner Jean-Pierre Beltoise and won the 1974 European championship with the former F1 Racer Patrick Depailler. March 732 are almost the same as 712 and 722. In 1974 all cars were modified by factory to 742 specifications with F1 front wing, 2 side water radiators, new suspensions and brake scoops. During 1974 season, March’s where so quick that they won all races but 1. The engine is a fuel injected Ford BDG, fully restored by Richardson and showing 296 bhp on dynotester. The gearbox is the standard Hewland FT200. This car has been fully restored with no matter of costs in 1996, then sold to current owner who has completed a detailled check-up and only raced 4 times in total during 2002 season. A large service has just been completed in 2004. The clutch is 0 miles and all safety elements have 2004 labels. The engine has completed a total of 2,800 km from Richardson rebuild. This car comes with FIA papers, it is a very quick car as the previous owner, Ludovic Caron, won 5 races and 9 pole positions from 1998 to 2000. This is certainly the very best of all the March 712 / 722 / 732 / 742 to collect.

If we ignore the "misunderstanding" about it being the 1974 title winner, it is a 742 and it is ex-Depailler so it does help explain why there were so many ex-Depailler 742s around in 1975.

The chassis plate is shown on the web site and is worth a look - at least for compariso with other March chassis plates you may have seen

Allen

Chris Townsend · 29 Apr 2005, 08:27 (Ref:1289929)

I sometimes wonder if a car entering the March workshops for a rebuild ever left bearing the chassis plate it came in with...

Chassis 18 is now in the USA, where it was used in SCCA from 1978. So ex Depaillier? The gel coat is orange... Stuck orange.

I would, incidentally be suspicious of the claims for Depaillier having used a Brian Lewis car to compete in the 1974 European championship. Sutcliffe and Brambilla use 732-10 rebuilt, used by both Jarier and Beltoise in 73. But why would Depaillier want it in 74?

Chris

allenbrown · 29 Apr 2005, 08:49 (Ref:1289949)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

I would, incidentally be suspicious of the claims for Depaillier having used a Brian Lewis car to compete in the 1974 European championship.

'Suspicious' is a very polite word. I refered to it as a 'misunderstanding'. The spell-checker objects to all the better words, like the one that rhymes with rowlocks. Maybe a smilie says it best:

Allen

Dan Rear · 29 Apr 2005, 10:01 (Ref:1289998)

Allen/Chris, was -28 the one Carlo Giorgio used right up to '79, variously updated ? I presume either -23or -25 is the one Ian Jacobs now has, ie ex-Harper/Purley.

Chris Townsend · 29 Apr 2005, 17:23 (Ref:1290250)

Dan

Yup 28 was Giorgio's car
Do you know more about the back history of Ian Jacobs's car? I can get 23 as far as 1976 with John Walker, but know nada about 25.

Chris

Jeremy Jackson · 29 Apr 2005, 17:43 (Ref:1290265)

Don't want to muddy the water here chaps (honest), but Motor Sport this month says (or at least implies) that Jacobs car is chassis 30.

"The March 742 in which David Purley start the 1974 European F2 championship is back in Britain in the hands on Ian Jacobs....Purley only raced chassis 30 a couple of times before switching to a Chevron"

Goes on to say Jacobs got the car from Alain Prat, after it had spent most of it's life in French hillclimbs.

Steve Wilkinson · 3 May 2005, 09:47 (Ref:1291862)

Whilst scanning through a pile of old Speedscene magazines at a mates house over the Bank Holiday week-end I spotted a photo of Stuart Harte in the B29. The reference to the car said it was "the ex-Alo Lawler Chevron B29".

This I take to be chassis 06.

Not sure if I can add anything more but I will try to track down where the car went to after Stuart's death.

Chris Townsend · 3 May 2005, 14:46 (Ref:1292063)

Steve,

Could you be specific in the magazine reference [page and date]? Otherwise, brilliant!

Chris

Steve Wilkinson · 3 May 2005, 19:42 (Ref:1292289)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Steve,

Could you be specific in the magazine reference [page and date]? Otherwise, brilliant!

Chris

I'll ask my mate to double check for the details.

Gale Racing · 16 May 2005, 07:35 (Ref:1301932)

Chris / Bryan,

How are each of the B29's distinguished as Formual 2 or an Atlantic car. In the original shipping receipts between the first, second and third owners of my car B29-75-05 (Albert Poon / Chong Boon Seng / Lief Norberg), it refers to the car as a Formula 2 car, however I have always assumed the B29's to be Atlantic cars. My car was sold between two owners minus engine so I do not know what it ran with originally at present. Is there any other distinguishing feature on the chassis / chassis plate between F2 and Atlantic configuration?

Gale Racing

Bill Murray · 16 May 2005, 18:28 (Ref:1302443)

Although there is no mention in the Chassis number, the cars are different.
I have a factory parts list, and the main differences are:-
F2's have centrelock wheels, 15'' at the rear.
F2's have 4 fuel cells, 2 extra in the front of the pods connected through holes in the bulkhead.
F2 has a 19 row oil cooler instead of 13.
Rear wing and nose on F2 are wider.
F2 uses an FGA gearbox.
Hope this helps.

Gale Racing · 16 May 2005, 22:35 (Ref:1302629)

Bill,
Many thanks. Can you advise of the differences in the width of the nose and wing between Atlantic and F2 cars. I had assumed all B29's had centrelock wheels. Do some have stud wheels?
Gale Racing

Bill Murray · 17 May 2005, 18:22 (Ref:1303137)

The parts list says:-
Part no 25015, wing, 24'', F2
Part no 27001, wing, 21'', Atlantic.
I've checked on my Atlantic car, and this is the depth from front to rear.
The nose sections are part nos. 29302 (F2) and 29303 (atlantic), but I don't know what the difference is.
My car (29 75 08) is an atlantic and has bolt on wheels.
Cheers
Bill Murray

Gale Racing · 31 May 2005, 11:03 (Ref:1315587)

Bill,
My wing is 23 inches (Chord?) and has a lot of camber.
Does anyone have an appropriate profile for a single element wing for a mid / late 70's car running a BDA, perhaps a 18 inch to 21 inch chord, and span of around 48 inches, or even better still, have a mould or know a manufacturer (aluminum or resin).
Thanks
Gale Racing

Dan Rear · 9 Jun 2005, 09:08 (Ref:1323772)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Dan

Never been able to trace Bryce Wilson's B29 but there are only a few cars it can have been, as most B29s left in Europe have continuous Irish history to that point, and most cars are in ZA or USA. Maybe 07 [ex Derek Shortall]; 17 [ex Williams/Crawford/Birrane]; 19 [Choularton/Dowsett/Ledlie] (probably favourite as that was in N.Ireland and therefore nearest]; 29 Cook/Rossiter. Anything else would have had to be reimported.

Chris

The Smith-Jones 742 was a scruffy old nail! It was 742-15 ex Trivatello car raced by Gabrielle Serblin in 74, a Trivatello spare for almost anyone with an Italian passport in '75 then sold to the incomparable betoupéed 'Gimax' [aka Carlo Franchi] before it reached the UK.

Chris re the Bryce W B29, I've just borrowed a run of early '78 A/Sports. These confirm the car as the ex-Cook/Crawford/Birrane one, so I guess no. 17, though the 'Cook' link doesn't seem to work.

Off subject these FAt threads are so much better than those discussing Capris/Alfas/Spa etc etc, I must confess all this stuff is putting me off 1/10ths at the moment...

Sorry chaps !!

allenbrown · 9 Jun 2005, 13:42 (Ref:1323931)

Just ignore them Dan. Just stick to the threads you enjoy.

I believe the more people we have the easier it becomes to find out information. Who knows, that Capri fan might have just the Snetterton program we need to trace some old Modus.

Allen

Steve Wilkinson · 9 Jun 2005, 14:08 (Ref:1323950)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Just ignore them Dan. Just stick to the threads you enjoy.

I believe the more people we have the easier it becomes to find out information. Who knows, that Capri fan might have just the Snetterton program we need to trace some old Modus.

Allen

If only!

Chris Townsend · 23 Aug 2005, 08:40 (Ref:1389029)

Have now traced the identity of the Dave Rackham B29 which he used in early
1979 Atlantic before getting the ex Rosberg B42. It was chassis 07, ex Patsy
McGarrity, acquired from John Smith in N. Ireland. He seems to have bought it
in late May, as Smith uses a B29 at Kirkistown that month. His last, and perhaps only, Atlantic race with the car is Oulton at the end of June where he has a big accident. After this he gets the B42 and his ads in Autosport suggest he's looking
for parts to rebuild the B29 for the rest of the year.
In programmes for all the races before Oulton 30.6.79, Rackham is entered in Roger Andreasson's Druid. My question? Does anyone have photos of Rackham in the B29
from meetings before Oulton. The first race at which he could have had the car, I think, is Mallory on 28 May 79. He's entered in the Druid, the press says he had a Druid, but what did he actually use?

Chris

Dan Rear · 23 Aug 2005, 11:52 (Ref:1389213)

Chris, Rackham definitely in Druid at MP 28-5-79. Very wet race, he finished 5th 3 laps down.

Slightly O/T, in the prog notes, Jeremy Shaw (who I usually trust as a good source) say "Andy Barton has acquired a new March 79B". Not sure about this one though, I reckon it was probably a 782 updated.

Chris Townsend · 23 Aug 2005, 13:56 (Ref:1389303)

Thanks Dan. Barton's "new" car is described as a 78/79B later in the year, so goodness knows.
It wasn't the ex Scheckter 77B further updated, because that's for sale alongside
the 78/79B at the end of 1979. Could be a real 78B underneath it all, but I'd agree
more likely 782.

Chris

Dan Rear · 23 Aug 2005, 14:13 (Ref:1389311)

Chris, you're right re the 77B, 'cos we know Muter raced it alongside Andy a year or so later. IIRC, I've speculated before that I think it may have been based on the ex-Project 4/Hoffman 782. Can't recall where it went after Andy, though by '81, he'd modified it to look much more like a 792 as I recall.

I've seen from some 78 AS', that, for a very brief time, he also had a B40, which like his B35 (ex-Marazzi) he had a 'biggie' in. The AS writer, I think MAWP by that time, concluded that Andy and Chevrons just didn't seem to get on ! Any ideas on this one ?

Cameron Winton · 24 Aug 2005, 12:46 (Ref:1390157)

Andy Barton's 79B was not his old 77b converted. He ran both cars simultaneously fro Dave Muter and Cameron Binnie. I can't remember the 79b in 782 trim but I do remember it being described as a 78/79b. Dan is right, he modified it heavily with a 792 style nose. Don't know what happened to it.
The Bryce Wilson B29 was owned by Laurance Jacobsen while he drove it. DOn't know if that helps trace it.

Dan Rear · 26 Aug 2005, 13:37 (Ref:1391843)

On Rackham, did he ever use the works Argo JM5 that he was rumoured to be driving, if so it can'e have been often ?

Chris Townsend · 27 Aug 2005, 08:58 (Ref:1392346)

Dan,
Don't think Rackham ever drove the Argo in a race, but it is not the Nugent car in 1980. Rackham still has his for sale in November 1980 when Nugent sells his. Also, think that Rackham's was indeed a JM5 [1979 design] whilst Nugent's was a JM8.

However, have solved the identity of the David Ward Chevron B29. He advertises the car in late 1980 as 'ex Candy, Irish championship winner' - so it's the ex Wheatcroft/Riley/Bailey/Jordan/Candy 29-75-04.

Dan Rear · 30 Aug 2005, 09:15 (Ref:1394297)

Chris, and the one that I saw yesterday at Oulton, now Chris Sharples has it. It went pretty well in both the DBT and Chevron open-wheeler race.

On Argos, I'm certain Nugent's was a JM5, not an 8. I reckon only 2 JM8s ever made, the UK Goodwin car, and the Irish Tyrrell Arnold car. It was definitely a 1981 car, so couldn't have been the one Nugent raced and advertised in 1980. I reckon the JM5 was built late 1979, though intended for 1980. Finally, why can't the Rackham and Nugent cars have been one and the same ?