HSCC - The Martini Trophy - The NEW 1970s 2-litre Sports Prototype Racing car Series!

[p261brm]

FVC:- Four Valve Chevron, at least at 105 Chorley Old Road is what it stood for...

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

I do agree about the B16's would be a shame to not allow them (and B8's) into the new series.
I love B8's but out of interest did they have a very short shelf life in period at International level? How long was it before they were superceded by B16 and others?

B8 tends to cover all the cars from B4 onwards as earlier car's were updated.B16's life as previous post was short in comparison before being converted to an open car B19. http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...=83395&page=48 Quite a few owners converted their 16's into 19's though this is not as straight forward as it first appears, and in it's self gives rise to many claims being disputed of originality. Best not go down that road here. I see no reason for the Alloy block BDG engine being excluded from a race series for cars between 1971 and 1978.

[SAMD]

I wonder what the chances are of getting a 1979 Sports 2000, listed as a Group 6/Prototype car into an 'invitation class' for an odd run out?

[john ruston]

Indulgent is now 300K not 250K.

Good to drive and easy to look after.

Simon ,have suggested to your travelling dreamer he should buy one for CER rather than tractor.

[Alan Morgan]

Originally Posted by SAMD

I wonder what the chances are of getting a 1979 Sports 2000, listed as a Group 6/Prototype car into an 'invitation class' for an odd run out?

That question has already been asked, and the answer was no. Still, there are plenty of fun things to do with a Historic Sports 2000. We're off to Nürburgring in a couple of weeks to do a 9 hour race with a '78 Tiga. The race starts at 09:00 and finishes at 18:00 (ie in the dark), so the car needs lights and an alternator. Delta has volunteered to do the last stint...

[SAMD]

That '78 Tiga should get in ok though.

[phoenix]

With the Sport 2000 formula being launched in 1977 there must be quite a few Sports 2000 cars that would be eligable?

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Alan Morgan

The race starts at 09:00 and finishes at 18:00 (ie in the dark), so the car needs lights and an alternator. Delta has volunteered to do the last stint...

I am prepared to sponsor with a supply of carrots if it would help .....

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by Alan Morgan

That question has already been asked, and the answer was no. Still, there are plenty of fun things to do with a Historic Sports 2000. We're off to Nürburgring in a couple of weeks to do a 9 hour race with a '78 Tiga. The race starts at 09:00 and finishes at 18:00 (ie in the dark), so the car needs lights and an alternator. Delta has volunteered to do the last stint...

Just to repeat Alan's comments.... Alan is the 9 hour a one off or is there a series of endurance races for them? I have long thought they might be the way forward

[Alan Morgan]

I'll try and get some more information, Simon. The race is part of a series, but Sports 2000s are not eligible for all of them. The entry fee is €1490 per team, by the way.

[Mike Bell]

This proposed series was announced just after I got my MTX back from CZ, so gives me more options for it! Being BMW M10 powered hopefully it will avoid the Ford based engine arguments.

The different weight limits for winged and non winged cars leans me toward running in former, as MTX is near 600kg. Who do I go to in order to get 77 spec wing recreated from photos?

Not sure about B16s- love them to bits but a grid of all open cars better?

I was interested in a Sport 2000 but good ones not cheap and races are away from series usually go for.

[simon drabble]

makes the 6 Hour look expensive!!! If there are several races I might get one as I presume they are cheap to run and a lot of fun

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Not sure about B16s- love them to bits but a grid of all open cars better?

Why?, and no it wouldn't! I go back to my earlier question. Why does one of the best looking small sports racers of all time, get left out in the cold? They raced together with the B19s etc in period! I'm really not sure what the issue is here.

Now according to the HSCC website (see below) the minimum weight limits for winged cars is 575kgs and for non winged cars, 500kgs - see link below. I mention this because different weights have been mentioned earlier on in the thread. What do people think about these weight limits?

http://www.hscc.org.uk/news.html

[john ruston]

But do you allow a mid 70's engine in non winged cars as they now do in Masters.

But Not in CER.

Weight difference should be about 50 kilo.

Based on info you buy a Lola 210 and stick an alloy block BDA in it and you are in business.Just like they do in WSM now.

Hope it sorts itself out.

[Chris Sharples]

John, The club is looking to give both early and later cars a chance to be competitive. Do you thing weights should be 525 and 575 rather than those in the draft regs? Would that mean 212/B19 and 296 would have similar speed?
Chris

[James Murray]

Is Johns point that a 212/B19 with 75kg less than a mid 70's car and an alloy block BDG will be faster than the mid 70's cars with the same engine or M12/Hart due to the weight advantage. Thats essentially what happened in Orwell. Pre 72 cars whatever make never ran alloy BDG's, it only came in 73 through Brian Hart and most ran cast iron FVC or BDE. Difficult issue to legislate on for the new and hopefully successful series, great idea Chris.

[john ruston]

James has explained it rather better than I did.
If you stick a mid 70's ally engine into 210 type of machine without a wing it is quicker than a wing car.This is not historically correct.

The speed of 210 in CER race at Silverstone was not in line historically.

Charlie's good but not that good!

The weight of 525 / 575 seems about correct but there are other neutral experts who could confirm this.

[Chris Sharples]

John (and James),
We have the same thought. We are going to do a little more homework on current car weights and ask the views of a few more people before we settle on the final regs. The idea is to try and create a series where pretty 2 litre sports cars can play on their own without DFVs and turbo cars,and where everyone has a reasonable chance of doing well.
Chris

[john ruston]

Chris:Its HSCC and we will be there!

B8 for Guards and B26 and B31 for 2 litre.

[John Turner]

John, terrific! We have it in writing now!

[Ted Walker]

John R . The idea as far as i know is to have cars running the the CORRECT engine chassis combinations so NO hotrods .

[john ruston]

Had a quick call round the troops and idea is 550kilo for non wing cars and 575kilo for wing cars.

No ally blocks FVC's in non wing cars or other things that did not happen in period.

Problem is with many cars from period is that they were changed in period to get the best start money.

31's became 36's and so on.Just to make sure history became confused Thundersports,Orwell and Silhouette racing effected them.

A race meeting with Guards up to 68 and then two litre to 79/80 would be a tremendous meeting.Better than CER which had two good grids at Ricard but misses out on that 63- 66 period.

[simon drabble]

at the risk of upsetting lots of people woudl it not make more sense to have post 66 sports racers in the new series - thereby making Guards completely pre 66 and the B8's can then have a real race rather than just running as an invitation class?

[john ruston]

No-HSCC have decent grids for Guards now so why change it?
They can also have a reasonable grid for post 68.
How do you replace the 68 invitation cars in Guards.

[Ted Walker]

John. As long as a car was modified IN PERIOD when it will have to run to the date when it changed. ie if it was fitted with a BMW in 75 then it runs to 75 weights etc. without wishing to be rude the dates are not open for debate they have been decided by the board of the HSCC. The idea is to run the races where possible for 2012 alongside the F2 cars in europe and the UK.For 2011 they will be mainly in the UK