WEC Race 6 Hours Of Spa-Francorchamps 3-5 May 2018 - Page 4

XtC24 · 3 May 2018, 18:22 (Ref:3819209)

I am pretty sure the privateers would have a big laugh over our discussion.
We argue about how much laps they have in comparison etc.
And it looks like they are closest ever to the manufacturer.

But actually they surely did not believe they will have the same performance and stint lenght as Toyota.
They knew exactly what they sign up for.
And that is a unique possibility to win Le Mans outright. And this is because there is only single manufacturer to beat and that is TOYOTA. It was no brainer, no one of them thought they will be as fast or efficient. Yet they are very close...
I think they maybe even initially thought that maybe it will be only Bykolles to beat apart from Toyota.
But it was no surprise that other hunters showed up in big numbers.
So no, they are not complaining, only worry for them is to make sure they will be in best position to capitalise failures of Toyota and given the small difference in speed it could prove even easier.
Like someone said, Mr. Julian is an exception because he has to actually use the driver who was not supposed to drive so long...

Deleted · 3 May 2018, 18:25 (Ref:3819210)

Quote:

Originally Posted by XtC24

I am pretty sure the privateers would have a big laugh over our discussion.
We argue about how much laps they have in comparison etc.
And it looks like they are closest ever to the manufacturer.

Those times mean nothing considering Toyota can sandbag their way all the way to Le Mans qualifying sessions. In the past there wasn't really any use for sandbagging because EoT was locked in AND the privateers were in clear separation, but now it's different

Anyway agree on rest, even if Toyota grabs the pole by 10 seconds at LM and makes 3 laps longer stints, this is still the best chance privateers have had since 05-06

chernaudi · 3 May 2018, 18:26 (Ref:3819211)

I'll be willing to wait until qualifying is over before I go 100% dead to rights to see if the ACO messed up or not.

But even if we're still talking about something that did indeed happen a couple of weeks ago, something about this still rubs me the wrong way in the IMO the ACO have the opportunity to have the most wide open season in years and the most wide open LM in years, to possibly blow it.

chernaudi · 3 May 2018, 18:35 (Ref:3819214)

From SC365 so take it as you please, but Bart Hayden from Rebellion says that the gap between Rebellion and Toyota may be bigger than he expected it to be:

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/h...than-expected/

tomerswayler · 3 May 2018, 18:49 (Ref:3819223)

When I look at the flying laps from P1 and P2 below 2:10min, the Toyota's have a clear advantage. The median time of the best nonhybrid Rebellion is about 1.5 seconds slower than the Toyota 8.

Deleted · 3 May 2018, 18:54 (Ref:3819226)

So if we ignore Toyota, does it look as if among the non-hybrids the order here shall be

Rebellion
ART-SMP
ByKolles (if untroubled)
Dragonspeed (slow high df + Hedman)
Manor (if they even make the start)

Deleted · 3 May 2018, 19:22 (Ref:3819231)

THU Press Conference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mioJiq7_tRQ

LOL Lotterer's "sorry I'm in a smaller team now, we don't have babysitters"

canaglia · 3 May 2018, 19:39 (Ref:3819232)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

Here's an onboard of the Rebellion, sounds like he misses a shift out of stavelot not to mention how twitchy the car is into braking for les combes. These cars have a lot left in them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFdDqfc4v_Q

any idea if they're using a 6 or 7 speeds gearbox? (same about other private lmp1)

Deleted · 3 May 2018, 20:21 (Ref:3819244)

Dallara has six-speed at least

Meanwhile
http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/s...ay-notebook-9/

It has since been revealed that Leo Roussel, who was listed to drive the No. 5 car, is no longer on the entry list.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCM698LsjAI

carbsmith · 3 May 2018, 22:28 (Ref:3819265)

My interpretation of "should" is similar to the target times GT1 had some years back, where if you regularly run over 17 laps they are going to EoT the **** out of you. Sandbagging penalties might also be relevant.

sssssssss · 3 May 2018, 22:41 (Ref:3819268)

Quote:

Originally Posted by XtC24

I am pretty sure the privateers would have a big laugh over our discussion.
We argue about how much laps they have in comparison etc.
And it looks like they are closest ever to the manufacturer.

But actually they surely did not believe they will have the same performance and stint lenght as Toyota.
They knew exactly what they sign up for.
And that is a unique possibility to win Le Mans outright. And this is because there is only single manufacturer to beat and that is TOYOTA. It was no brainer, no one of them thought they will be as fast or efficient. Yet they are very close...
I think they maybe even initially thought that maybe it will be only Bykolles to beat apart from Toyota.
But it was no surprise that other hunters showed up in big numbers.
So no, they are not complaining, only worry for them is to make sure they will be in best position to capitalise failures of Toyota and given the small difference in speed it could prove even easier.
Like someone said, Mr. Julian is an exception because he has to actually use the driver who was not supposed to drive so long...

but how did it get to this? why is it such a no-brainer now that the big manufacturers should also be handed rule advantages on top of their fair advantage of financial power? why was it not the same in the audi or old porsche days? why could porsche and audi run on the exact same rules as the others or even get huge weight and power penalties like audi got in 2005? and yet they still were able to beat everyone at le mans...

EffectiveSprinkles · 3 May 2018, 23:01 (Ref:3819271)

I'm not quite sure Toyota has a 'rule advantage' per se. That 2.4L V6 is not getting very much fuel to work with at all...

carbsmith · 3 May 2018, 23:15 (Ref:3819272)

The last time an Audi factory team ran to the same rules as the privateers was 2002. The independent Audis didn't have any penalties in 2005 that the Dallaras and Reynard derivatives didn't. I'd say diesels had far more advantage in the rules than hybrids do right now. The R10 was nowhere near as good of a car as the TS050 is.

TF110 · 3 May 2018, 23:17 (Ref:3819273)

I find it really funny people think these new guys should just show up and immediately be on Toyota's pace which won't change much from last year. Their cars are either brand new or mostly new. Why do people expect them to be setting 1:55's at Spa all of a sudden? It's going to take some time for them to set their car up and get it running to a point they're comfortable with. If anyone has some form of data on Spa besides Toyota, it's ByKolles. Even their car has big changes so it may be worthless.

In that video I linked to, the onboard of the Rebellion showed they are not dialed in yet. It's not a switch you can flip. But once they do find that sweet spot, these guys are going to be mega fast. They need a little time. Toyota know their car because they've been working with it for over a year and it's not a new package to them. I think that's a fair view on how things are at the moment.

EffectiveSprinkles · 3 May 2018, 23:32 (Ref:3819275)

ByKolles are so far 2 seconds faster than they were in qualifying last year. Back then they qualified among the LMP2s.

sssssssss · 3 May 2018, 23:37 (Ref:3819276)

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbsmith

The last time an Audi factory team ran to the same rules as the privateers was 2002. The independent Audis didn't have any penalties in 2005 that the Dallaras and Reynard derivatives didn't. I'd say diesels had far more advantage in the rules than hybrids do right now. The R10 was nowhere near as good of a car as the TS050 is.

Maybe I remember this wrong, but I thought the R8 was significantly heavier in 2005. Anyway, it still won LM. And also, until 2002, the Audi domination was the most obvious. As for the R10 not being as good as the TS050... come on man. The TS050 was barely able to even finish LM. The R10 won it. Every time. And against other factory diesels. There almost is no comparison... Toyota still have a lot to prove.

EffectiveSprinkles · 3 May 2018, 23:40 (Ref:3819279)

Another fun interview with Alonso who, like at Indy last year, just seems like he's massively enjoying himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNhOHNB7ZCw

Most notable thing is the way he emphasizes the tyres being able to be driven at full speed throughout the stint.

TF110 · 4 May 2018, 01:14 (Ref:3819288)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sssssssss

Maybe I remember this wrong, but I thought the R8 was significantly heavier in 2005. Anyway, it still won LM. And also, until 2002, the Audi domination was the most obvious. As for the R10 not being as good as the TS050... come on man. The TS050 was barely able to even finish LM. The R10 won it. Every time. And against other factory diesels. There almost is no comparison... Toyota still have a lot to prove.

1 race does not a car make. The TS050 won 5 races last year alone. Le Mans can catch anyone out and it came within 3 minutes of their first win there in 2016. The R10 was running 'unstressed'. Only Peugeot had a diesel and they didn't show up until 2007. In 2006 the Audi had a 90L fuel tank, same as the petrol cars

They won by 4 laps and the talk about the competition? Well a GT1 Corvette finished 4th overall! I think the competition has gotten a lot tougher and more competent nowadays. Lets see how the race goes and how they do in the coming weeks with Le Mans looming.

carbsmith · 4 May 2018, 02:00 (Ref:3819289)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sssssssss

Maybe I remember this wrong, but I thought the R8 was significantly heavier in 2005. Anyway, it still won LM. And also, until 2002, the Audi domination was the most obvious. As for the R10 not being as good as the TS050... come on man. The TS050 was barely able to even finish LM. The R10 won it. Every time. And against other factory diesels. There almost is no comparison... Toyota still have a lot to prove.

The fastest R10 was over three seconds behind the slowest Peugeot in qualifying in 2008 and 5.3s off pole. The TS050 holds the outright Le Mans track record. Pretty clear which one better represents the ultimate lap time potential under the regulations.

The R8 was really heavy in 2005, but so were the other non-hybrid LMP900 cars.

XtC24 · 4 May 2018, 07:37 (Ref:3819328)

They are constantly changing the time of the sessions on the fiawec.com.
This is another f... up from them.
It was to be 10 40 for FP3 yestarday, now it is scheduled for 11 00.
Qualifying schedule is also changed.

I turned the live timing 5 minutes late for FP2 because of this.

Truckosaurus · 4 May 2018, 08:57 (Ref:3819336)

I have invested £4 in the WEC App for the weekend as I am away from home so cannot watch it on the television.

tomerswayler · 4 May 2018, 09:09 (Ref:3819338)

1:57.1 for the #1 Rebellion, yesterday's best nonhybrid time was a 1:58.8.

GasperG · 4 May 2018, 09:10 (Ref:3819339)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

I find it really funny people think these new guys should just show up and immediately be on Toyota's pace which won't change much from last year. Their cars are either brand new or mostly new. Why do people expect them to be setting 1:55's at Spa all of a sudden? It's going to take some time for them to set their car up and get it running to a point they're comfortable with. If anyone has some form of data on Spa besides Toyota, it's ByKolles. Even their car has big changes so it may be worthless.

In that video I linked to, the onboard of the Rebellion showed they are not dialed in yet. It's not a switch you can flip. But once they do find that sweet spot, these guys are going to be mega fast. They need a little time. Toyota know their car because they've been working with it for over a year and it's not a new package to them. I think that's a fair view on how things are at the moment.

100% agree, if Toyota has a chance at LeMans then it's this year, next year privateers will improve, it will depend on EoT but my bet is Toyota will have a much harder time next year.

In the mean time Neel Jani in the Rebellion with 1:57

**PascaLM** · 4 May 2018, 09:19 (Ref:3819343)

The team BMW removed the potatoe from the exhaust : 2'14"225

tomerswayler · 4 May 2018, 09:19 (Ref:3819344)

BMW is also speeding up with a 2:14.2 compared to yesterday's best 2:13.7 from Ford.

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