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Old 2 Jul 2019, 20:27 (Ref:3915546)   #91
Richard Casto
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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
in fairness, when i look back on this thread i see many posts about whether or not Honda deserve more or less credit or more or less blame...aside from ranking things being inherent in sports i would also say ranking Honda's performance (regardless of whether its comparing them to their competitors or comparing their input relative to its partners) is inherent to this thread.
I promise this is my last post on this. I am also not trying to get the last word either. Mostly as I think I am doing a poor job of making my point.

Maybe it's less about the apportioning of credit than it is your initial posts really didn't give any credit to anyone other than Max. I think your initial posts were very strong in that regard, but the later discussion was softened. I have quoted your posts I mention directly below...

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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
Congrats to Honda but this is Max's win...amazing what a hungry driver can do!
My point... why is this only a Max win and also not a win for Honda?

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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
its sports...one person is always trying harder, wants it more. thats not the same as saying the others were not trying, it just means that effort/desire is not equal.
How can you say that Max want's the win more or is trying harder than anyone else on the team?

As I say... I am done posting on this topic as I am sure I have said too much. Way more words have been typed than it deserves. I doubt me saying anything else would get my point across more or to change you mind.

Cheers.

Richard
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Old 2 Jul 2019, 20:58 (Ref:3915564)   #92
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Well maybe im not doing a good job either in explaining my point.

Again though, literally the first thing i said was congrats to Honda but that aside and why i give Max credit for the win (beyond him looking like a driver who had a firecraker lit under his butt) is more because (and i could be mistaken here) Honda didnt look to be the superior engine of the day, no major upgrades that brought them up a level, and im not even sure if this was a new engine or not.

For all intents this was the same (spec) engine they had last race with the exception that Max really seemed on it.

Anywho i think you might have been seeing much more then i had intended with what was initially meant as a fairly uncontrovertial post.

All good though.
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Old 2 Jul 2019, 21:07 (Ref:3915566)   #93
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I think there's a tad of 'overthinking' (or certainly overexplaining) going on here. I think we all know what both of you are saying.....
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Old 2 Jul 2019, 22:32 (Ref:3915574)   #94
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Haha too many words for sure!

Good times though.
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Old 2 Jul 2019, 23:20 (Ref:3915581)   #95
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Itís nice that Honda have had their first win since Hungary 2006. Of course it wasnít quite as dramatic win as Jensonís, but it must be a big relief to all of them. Shows they can adapt to modern F1
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Old 3 Jul 2019, 09:06 (Ref:3915626)   #96
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Honda have been involved in F1 for 55 odd years....you would wonder why is taken them so long to get it together.
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Old 3 Jul 2019, 11:17 (Ref:3915655)   #97
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Originally Posted by Armco Bender View Post
Honda have been involved in F1 for 55 odd years....you would wonder why is taken them so long to get it together.
The current engine spec has pushed the envelope beyond prior state of the art. Honda does fine in other series in which the engine designs are more "classic". Honda also rotates their staff pretty aggressively. That can be to the benefit of the rest of Honda, but to the detriment of the F1 part of the organization. Honda also comes and goes from the sport. Combine that with the staff rotation and knowledge is lost. Lastly, from a global manufacturer perspective, Honda is a small company.

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