Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 2 Jul 2019, 21:27 (Ref:3915546)   #91
Richard Casto
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Richard Casto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
United States
Durham, NC, USA
Posts: 3,284
Richard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
in fairness, when i look back on this thread i see many posts about whether or not Honda deserve more or less credit or more or less blame...aside from ranking things being inherent in sports i would also say ranking Honda's performance (regardless of whether its comparing them to their competitors or comparing their input relative to its partners) is inherent to this thread.
I promise this is my last post on this. I am also not trying to get the last word either. Mostly as I think I am doing a poor job of making my point.

Maybe it's less about the apportioning of credit than it is your initial posts really didn't give any credit to anyone other than Max. I think your initial posts were very strong in that regard, but the later discussion was softened. I have quoted your posts I mention directly below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
Congrats to Honda but this is Max's win...amazing what a hungry driver can do!
My point... why is this only a Max win and also not a win for Honda?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
its sports...one person is always trying harder, wants it more. thats not the same as saying the others were not trying, it just means that effort/desire is not equal.
How can you say that Max want's the win more or is trying harder than anyone else on the team?

As I say... I am done posting on this topic as I am sure I have said too much. Way more words have been typed than it deserves. I doubt me saying anything else would get my point across more or to change you mind.

Cheers.

Richard
Richard Casto is offline  
__________________
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.
Quote
Old 2 Jul 2019, 21:58 (Ref:3915564)   #92
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 6,576
chillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Well maybe im not doing a good job either in explaining my point.

Again though, literally the first thing i said was congrats to Honda but that aside and why i give Max credit for the win (beyond him looking like a driver who had a firecraker lit under his butt) is more because (and i could be mistaken here) Honda didnt look to be the superior engine of the day, no major upgrades that brought them up a level, and im not even sure if this was a new engine or not.

For all intents this was the same (spec) engine they had last race with the exception that Max really seemed on it.

Anywho i think you might have been seeing much more then i had intended with what was initially meant as a fairly uncontrovertial post.

All good though.
chillibowl is offline  
__________________
These are the days of miracle and wonder!
Quote
Old 2 Jul 2019, 22:07 (Ref:3915566)   #93
Aysedasi
Retirement Club Member
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 32,476
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I think there's a tad of 'overthinking' (or certainly overexplaining) going on here. I think we all know what both of you are saying.....
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
Retired.....not out.....

157
Quote
Old 2 Jul 2019, 23:32 (Ref:3915574)   #94
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 6,576
chillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Haha too many words for sure!

Good times though.
chillibowl is offline  
__________________
These are the days of miracle and wonder!
Quote
Old 3 Jul 2019, 00:20 (Ref:3915581)   #95
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,623
S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!
Itís nice that Honda have had their first win since Hungary 2006. Of course it wasnít quite as dramatic win as Jensonís, but it must be a big relief to all of them. Shows they can adapt to modern F1
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 3 Jul 2019, 10:06 (Ref:3915626)   #96
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,025
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
Honda have been involved in F1 for 55 odd years....you would wonder why is taken them so long to get it together.
Armco Bender is online now  
Quote
Old 3 Jul 2019, 12:17 (Ref:3915655)   #97
Richard Casto
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Richard Casto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
United States
Durham, NC, USA
Posts: 3,284
Richard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armco Bender View Post
Honda have been involved in F1 for 55 odd years....you would wonder why is taken them so long to get it together.
The current engine spec has pushed the envelope beyond prior state of the art. Honda does fine in other series in which the engine designs are more "classic". Honda also rotates their staff pretty aggressively. That can be to the benefit of the rest of Honda, but to the detriment of the F1 part of the organization. Honda also comes and goes from the sport. Combine that with the staff rotation and knowledge is lost. Lastly, from a global manufacturer perspective, Honda is a small company.

Richard
Richard Casto is offline  
__________________
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2019, 15:05 (Ref:3941428)   #98
Richard Casto
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Richard Casto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
United States
Durham, NC, USA
Posts: 3,284
Richard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quick post to celebrate the great results for Honda in the Brazilian GP yesterday. Many things to note as being positive.



There was nearly an all Honda podium. While who knows what might have happened if Hamilton had not collided with Albon. Maybe Hamilton would have still made a clean pass later, or not. It was interesting to watch the drag race between Hamilton and Gasly on the last lap (Toro Rosso vs Mercedes as well!) Honda wasn't giving up anything to the Mercedes PU! Kudos to Honda on their power unit progress!

It is interesting that the recently technical directives from the FIA to stop any current or future attempts at playing games around fuel flow (as well as the ongoing sage around burning lubricants). After the new directives, it is interesting that Ferrari has had a bit of a qualifying slump. Coincidence or not? Who knows! Leclerc had a new power unit with just two races to run, so no doubt they have it turned up as far as it goes (no need to race to specific longevity goals). So his pace should have been about as good as it gets for Ferrari right now.

Given the altitude of the Brazilian race, there is also the potential that Honda's turbo configuration/size may have allowed it to perform better than Mercedes? Honda was clearly on pace the entire weekend. Putting the potential for some type of altitude advantage aside, Honda is right there in the mix now with Ferrari and Mercedes. If there are differences in the top teams I think we are now starting to see situations in which no single team dominates in all scenarios. Now we are seeing teams close enough that small differences allow one or another to get an advantage on a track by track basis.

Lastly the win was on the 113th anniversary of the birth of Honda founder and namesake Soichiro Honda.

Richard
Richard Casto is offline  
__________________
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2019, 17:20 (Ref:3941458)   #99
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 6,576
chillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
for sure congrats to Honda and cool anniversary as well!

you certainly have been keeping the faith Richard!

earlier in the summer i was far more impressed with Max's efforts then the teams, and while fortune played its hand in Brazil (as it can in sports), to see 3 Honda powered cars up there must surely be seen as a testament to the work they have been putting in. im excited for the future!
chillibowl is offline  
__________________
These are the days of miracle and wonder!
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2019, 19:06 (Ref:3941464)   #100
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,623
S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!
Honda are certainly on an up, with a great car and two top drivers in their car. They could challenge for the title next season
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2019, 22:29 (Ref:3941505)   #101
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 13,717
chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!
RB need a bit more from the Honda yet. I'm not buying that Gasly outpowered Sham up the hill to the finish yday!
I can certainly see both Max and Alex going for wins more regularly but it will need Merc to lose advantages and Ferrari to balls up again for either RB guy to get a genuine shot.
chunterer is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2019, 23:10 (Ref:3941512)   #102
Richard Casto
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Richard Casto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
United States
Durham, NC, USA
Posts: 3,284
Richard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunterer View Post
I'm not buying that Gasly outpowered Sham up the hill to the finish yday!
Given setup differences, gearing, efficiency of aero, age of engines, who had DRS at any one moment, amount of stored k-energy, level of damage to the car and even now altitude of the track (ICE/turbo efficiency)!, it's hard to say for sure "what" part was the magic one. No doubt it was multiple things. Do it all again and it might go differently as well.

Either way, it was clear (via Hamilton in-car) that up the hill Gasly was able to go from them being even to then pull slightly away from Hamilton on the last lap.

https://youtu.be/3WZeoOkMf0Y?t=372

You can see at 6:12 that Lewis did have a run on him as they start to go up the hill, they cut away to show Max take the checkered and then cut back to Gasly/Lewis and the momentum is gone and as they get close to start/finish Gasly edges ever so slowly away. I can't see why Lewis would have lifted if that is the explanation. Even in the post race room just before the podium they two talk about how he Gasly was hoping and Lewis said he couldn't pull in Gasly up the hill.

Anyhow, as I say, it's likely track by track advantages now. Who knows who might have the advantage at the last race. RBR has done well at the Brazil track in recent history.

Richard
Richard Casto is offline  
__________________
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2019, 08:00 (Ref:3941565)   #103
GT6
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
England
MAIDSTONE, KENT, ENGLAND
Posts: 8,968
GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!
The people most upset by the honda performance must be maclaren, ok they seem to be getting more from the power unit that the renault team but if they had stuck with Honda they could be competing for wins rather than midfield mediocrity.
GT6 is online now  
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2019, 09:31 (Ref:3941581)   #104
P38 in workshop
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 434
P38 in workshop has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
If the Honda powered cars show the same level of performance at the sea level Yas Marina circuit it might be a smart move to place an early bet on a championship or two next year.I suppose we (and Honda) should be grateful that the negative comments last year gave them the stimulus to produce such an improvement.



I wonder if Zak Brown went home and kicked the cat.......
P38 in workshop is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2019, 18:08 (Ref:3941657)   #105
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,623
S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!
I wonder if the damage to Hamiltonís front wing may have contributed to his inability to get past Gasly too
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HONDA CIVIC 2013 vs HONDA ACCORD 2000 iceman-1987 WTCC & European Touring Car Series 8 27 Mar 2013 10:29
Will BAR-Honda change to just "Honda"? Born Racer Formula One 16 29 Dec 2005 21:41
Hayden to Honda GP, B Bostrom to US Honda - Confirmed racer69 Bike Racing 6 16 Sep 2002 05:24
Did Honda go into hibernation ? Super Tourer WTCC & European Touring Car Series 1 3 May 2000 17:42
"Honda" Integra Type R Mr.S WTCC & European Touring Car Series 8 30 Mar 2000 02:53


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 18:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.