Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > ACO Regulated Series


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 4 Jul 2019, 18:34 (Ref:3915903)   #7096
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 8,875
Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Still down for me, but given that Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, Apple, Microsoft and AWS have all been down today, it's safe to say that it's probably related to that and I have a CDN that hasn't updated yet.
Akrapovic is online now  
Quote
Old 4 Jul 2019, 19:20 (Ref:3915909)   #7097
hondafan37
Veteran
 
hondafan37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Argentina
Buenos Aires, Argentine
Posts: 1,514
hondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridhondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
I would have, but...

Attachment 53449
Quote:
4T : Design Miscellaneous Features
words: Peter Stevens
25 July 2014

Editor’s Note: We first encountered designer Peter Stevens on Facebook earlier this month. We learned that longtime automotive designer was once involved with an Audi Le Mans project that pre-dated that of the R8R LMP1. At the time, Audi was exploring both the building of a supercar and the entry into Le Mans style sports car racing. GT1 & GT2 efforts were the hot formula at the time and the Audi TT was Ingolstadt’s only sports car.

Examining specs proposed, the car looked to be a radical undertaking. Had they been approved, both race and road versions of the G-TT were proposed to have a mid-mounted V8 twin turbo engine, 6-speed sequential gearbox, Brembo 4-piston brakes, OZ wheels, double wishbone inboard coil spring dampers and an aluminum and carbon monocoque chassis.

Looking back on the era, the Porsche 911 GT1 and Mercedes-Benz CLK GT1 are fascinating and incredibly rare examples of what could have been. Given all of this, we’re incredibly excited to have the G-TT (GT2) and TT GT1 story told in Mr. Stevens’ own words and augmented with design drawings, schematics and photos from the time period provided by the author.



Following a number of very successful years in the British Saloon car championship running first Volkswagen Golfs and then Audis, Richard Lloyd and I had a plan for a Le Mans eligible GT2 Audi, tentatively called G-TT. I made a number of design drawings as part of a proposal to Audi that was presented in January 1997 for the 1998 season. This was before we carried out a much bigger research study for an Audi GT1 project called R8 GT that later became the Le Mans R8 project. There was a package layout for the G-TT and a specification page from the report document which is attached. Audi’s road-car division, under Doctor Ulrich Hackenburg, were working on a mid-placed V8 engined version of the new front-engined TT. We had the opportunity to do some laps of Audi’s short test track as passengers in the car, late in 1996.



The idea for the G-TT was that it should look similar to the current TT but have a much greater road presence and a layout that would have made a very competitive GT2 race car. The engineering was looked after by Jim Router and Gerry Booen, both ex-Lotus guys; the overall project direction came from chief designer Nigel Stroud. I was in charge of aesthetics and aero development as well as presentation content for our Audi meetings at Ingolstadt.





The next logical step beyond the Audi TT based GT2 was to consider a GT1 Le Mans car. The McLaren F1 GTR had shown that a GT1 car could compete for overall victory at Le Mans, therefore a more race car oriented GT appealed to Audi.

Work started on this project towards the end of 1996 and by February 1997 a complex wind tunnel development programme was underway at the Activa rolling road tunnel. This tunnel had previously been the Brabham Team aerodynamic facility, at the time it was available and comparatively inexpensive but perhaps not with as much repeatability as we would have liked. 550 runs were carried out with more than 50 variations of concept under the direction of designer Nigel Stroud, engineer Jim Router and myself.



The objective was to find a good efficiency for the car, this required not only the development of reliable downforce but also low drag. We were looking for a lift over drag, L/D ration of about 3.20. From an acceptable race-car base line we then worked back to produce a road-car specification that gave an exciting looking customer car with plenty of opportunity for development. This was more in the manner that Mercedes and Porsche worked than the McLaren F1 which started out as a pure road-car that was later developed for racing.



In parallel with the aero development we produced a full size side view tape drawing, a full size seating buck and a design presentation for senior Audi personnel, which included CEO Franz Paefgen, motorsport chief Wolfgang Ulrich, head of engine development (a good friend) Ulrich Baretzki and design chief Peter Schreyer.



The project, codenamed ‘Aurora’ was intended to become the Audi GT1 R8 but during 1997 it became evident that the new category for Le Mans Prototypes, LMP was where future winners would come from. As well as all the engineering development proposals Richard Lloyd presented a very complete business plan for the GT1, this undoubtedly caught the eye of Doctor Ulrich who could see the possibilities of a long term project for his Ingolstadt based team.



Richard Lloyd’s group went on to develop the Audi R8C for the 1999 Le Mans 24 hour race under the design direction of good friend Tony Southgate whilst I worked with Williams and BMW to produce the LM99 winning car. The R8C was a good looking car but I suspect that the Audi factory effort was more focused on their own R8 open car, the first of a series which continue to dominate Le Mans.

Peter Stevens

July 2014
This is the full article.
hondafan37 is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Jul 2019, 19:35 (Ref:3915911)   #7098
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 8,875
Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Thank you, I appreciate the effort!
Akrapovic is online now  
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2019, 01:21 (Ref:3915946)   #7099
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 14,825
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
Such cool cars that could have continued racing but then lmp took over. Maybe this generation will have the same thing and we can drop bop and such when it (hopefully) gets more popular.
TF110 is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Jul 2019, 11:52 (Ref:3920220)   #7100
Mike E
Veteran
 
Mike E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Leeds
Posts: 2,498
Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!
I hadn't considered the possibility that Hypercar could kill the LMP2 tyre war. Kinda makes sense if you are trying to control the performance of your second string prototypes relative to your new, slower top class. Hope it doesn't happen.

"Victory in that tender process could pave the way for an exclusivity deal in LMP2 too. The ACO and FIA will look to level off the performance curve that open-tyre competition creates to prevent LMP2s from making strides. Any further gains in the coming seasons will only complicate the matter of separating the current crop of Gibson-powered prototypes and the ‘Hypercar Prototypes’, which are due to be significantly slower than the current LMP1s."

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...-goodyear.html
Mike E is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Jul 2019, 18:29 (Ref:3920284)   #7101
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,332
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
What a shock horror that would be as it goes along nicely with general dumbification. Then literally the only place left for tire war would be Super GT.
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Jul 2019, 13:29 (Ref:3920405)   #7102
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,172
S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!
The truth is a lot of tyre companies would prefer competition to show why they are the best which is good for marketing
S griffin is online now  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 30 Jul 2019, 17:07 (Ref:3920422)   #7103
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,332
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
The truth is a lot of tyre companies would prefer competition to show why they are the best which is good for marketing
I'm not sure if that's true any longer, exclusivity marketing deals se to be where it's at now.

Tbh it's been bit of a surprise LMP2's been allowed to stay open tire this long with rest of it being entirely spec, but I guess Hypercar ruining everyones lives is part of the new world order
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Jul 2019, 18:17 (Ref:3920434)   #7104
carbsmith
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,205
carbsmith has a real shot at the championship!carbsmith has a real shot at the championship!carbsmith has a real shot at the championship!carbsmith has a real shot at the championship!carbsmith has a real shot at the championship!carbsmith has a real shot at the championship!
Spec tire push legitimately tends to come from the series side, because a tire war is a disruptive element to their micromanaging and official supplier contracts are profit centers. Up until recently Michelin didn't want back into F1 unless it was with competition. Being a tire supplier at the pro level doesn't benefit from scale the way a car builder does, it's expensive and difficult to transport and manage the hundreds to thousands of tires to supply a full field.

Some manufacturers that will consistently get their crap pushed in with a tire war like Goodyear and Pirelli like them, but that's about it.
carbsmith is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2019, 08:03 (Ref:3920502)   #7105
Mike E
Veteran
 
Mike E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Leeds
Posts: 2,498
Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!
We're off topic as usual but since we're here...

One of the worst aspects of spec tyres generally, IMO, is they tend to encourage the use of compulsory pit stops, which are obviously nonsense and a waste of resources. The only way spec tyres get talked about is if teams have to come in and change them. And then you get compulsory pit stop windows, which are also ridiculous from a pure racing point of view.

This is less of an issue in endurance racing, of course, because the races are long enough for tyre changes to actually be required to go the distance.

A bugbear of mine...
Mike E is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2019, 08:17 (Ref:3920506)   #7106
CTD
Veteran
 
CTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Denmark
Aarhus, Jylland, Denmark
Posts: 6,340
CTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike E View Post
We're off topic as usual but since we're here...

One of the worst aspects of spec tyres generally, IMO, is they tend to encourage the use of compulsory pit stops, which are obviously nonsense and a waste of resources. The only way spec tyres get talked about is if teams have to come in and change them. And then you get compulsory pit stop windows, which are also ridiculous from a pure racing point of view.

This is less of an issue in endurance racing, of course, because the races are long enough for tyre changes to actually be required to go the distance.

A bugbear of mine...
Less of an issue in endurance racing, very true, but you are very much on point regarding another challenge with spec tyres.

By looking at F1, having a spec tire can hurt specific manufactures quite a lot if the tire does not match the chassis properly.
With a tire war, the tire company is more inclined to work with the manufacture to solve the issue, where with a spec tire, the tire company is more inclined to do nothing as other manufactures are working fine and the resources spent into solving the specific issue is "wasted".
Ultimately this could result in a single manufacture who experience issues, to lose a lot of pace, deeming the product (chassis) poorer to the competitors and in the end "kill" the manufactures interest in LMP, as there are no buyers.
CTD is offline  
__________________
Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan)
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2019, 15:06 (Ref:3920551)   #7107
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,172
S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!
That's always the problem I have with tyre wars too, they hardly need to improve their tyre if they've got nothing to compete against and so it's a case of 'this is what you got, like it or lump it' instead of trying to bring the best out of the constructors you are supplying
S griffin is online now  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2019, 20:17 (Ref:3920591)   #7108
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 14,825
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
If it is a single tire supplier, that's a lot different than a 'spec' tire. If were talking about Michelin, they've shown that they're not too bad with prototypes I'd like to see 2 or more tire makes available too, though. I hope this is just something that the rule makers are using as a means to get people in the door in terms of saving money though and not something they intend to keep for year on year.

Something about 'hypercar' from Toyota https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...eupen/4504264/, they say they intend to use a bespoke lmp (we already knew that) but there's also the mention of costs associated with it which is new information.

Quote:
"We’re not a great reference, but the new rules are significantly cheaper. We’re talking about [savings of] over 50 percent. We used to build a new monocoque every year. If that’s 10 million euros every year, then now you can write that off over a period of five years.
Bolded part is my emphasis.
TF110 is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Aug 2019, 13:26 (Ref:3921686)   #7109
Mike E
Veteran
 
Mike E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Leeds
Posts: 2,498
Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!
'Success handicap' could be used in other classes. One way to increase variety in LMP2, I suppose.

And the intention is to let the handicap system play out in LMP1 without changing the EoT. I hope they can at least do that. So much fiddling...

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...other-classes/
Mike E is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Aug 2019, 14:51 (Ref:3921698)   #7110
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,332
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
“But in general motorsport has to evolve in that direction."
I hate you Vincent

“We understand that so I think in the end, the best will always win, because it’a a sport."
For how long...

“Closer racing and less costs is the right approach for the sport today.”
Well I'm done soon

Formula 1 will be the last resort for non-entertainment-"racing", oh dear... Mind you, the last couple of GPs have been quite good without any artificial BS (other than stupid DRS and cheese spec tires, but that's pennies in contrast to what there could be)

Last edited by Chiana; 6 Aug 2019 at 14:57.
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[WEC] Glickenhaus Hypercar Akrapovic ACO Regulated Series 59 26 Sep 2019 23:59
[WEC] Aston Martin Hypercar Discussion deggis ACO Regulated Series 77 17 Sep 2019 07:22
[WEC] SCG 007: Glickenhaus Le Mans LMP1 Hypercar Bentley03 ACO Regulated Series 26 16 Nov 2018 01:35
ALMS Extends LMP Regulations tblincoe North American Racing 33 26 Aug 2005 15:03
[LM24] Whats the future of LMP's at Le Mans?? Garrett 24 Heures du Mans 59 8 Jul 2004 15:15


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 14:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.