[Official] Bahrain Grand Prix 2021: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 1 of 23

[S griffin]

Thing is I don’t have a problem with asphalt run off per se, even if it lessens the challenge of some corners. But when it’s in places where the track limits argument comes up, then it shouldn’t be there

[GregUK]

Track limits are clearly defined by the ISC.

Why is it necessary to mess with that?

[Greem]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Thing is I don’t have a problem with asphalt run off per se, even if it lessens the challenge of some corners. But when it’s in places where the track limits argument comes up, then it shouldn’t be there

But the whole entire point of the turn 4 tarmac is because it's a separate piece of track for a different layout! It's not just a runoff area. And because it's a piece of track, it may not be prudent (given the local peak temperatures) to build a wall across it a la Silverstone's International circuit using linked 1 and a half or 2 tonne concrete blocks as it'll ruin the surface given enough time in that heat.

Martin Brundle made a comment at the weekend about the fact that circuits had been changed to accommodate ever-faster and more complex cars and bikes, and sometimes the balance between the two isn't right for one or the other - or, sometimes, either.

Drivers have always pushed boundaries. They always will.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by GregUK

Track limits are clearly defined by the ISC.

Why is it necessary to mess with that?

The biggest issue at the weekend was the changes in rules, and subsequent non-compliance.

Mr Masi needs to start throwing a few black'n'whites and time penalties at drivers who transgress the limit. They'll soon stop.

That said, it's what happens at club level in the UK and the beggars still do it! I have a notepad from a meeting at Donington last year that has something like 40 or 50 b'n'w or time penalties written in it. That was fun...

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Greem

The biggest issue at the weekend was the changes in rules, and subsequent non-compliance.

Mr Masi needs to start throwing a few black'n'whites and time penalties at drivers who transgress the limit. They'll soon stop.

That said, it's what happens at club level in the UK and the beggars still do it! I have a notepad from a meeting at Donington last year that has something like 40 or 50 b'n'w or time penalties written in it. That was fun...

The simple answer is to black flag all transgressors immediately just as they do in athletics, as I pointed out earlier. That truly will stop them.

[chillibowl]

The problem for me is that allowing the drivers to carry more speed through corners helps the racing.

Otherwise its slow micky mouse corners on a tilkedrome no?

I dont think there is an easy black and white answer here.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

The problem for me is that allowing the drivers to carry more speed through corners helps the racing.

Yes - agree with this.

I've seen a few posts over the last couple of days on the internet referring to Monaco as never having a track limits problem.
Yes - that is true. But let's be honest, because the track limits are so defined the racing is pretty rubbish. Very few attempts to overtake, and when those attempts go wrong we are stuck behind a safety car for numerous laps.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by Greem

But the whole entire point of the turn 4 tarmac is because it's a separate piece of track for a different layout! It's not just a runoff area. And because it's a piece of track, it may not be prudent (given the local peak temperatures) to build a wall across it a la Silverstone's International circuit using linked 1 and a half or 2 tonne concrete blocks as it'll ruin the surface given enough time in that heat.

Martin Brundle made a comment at the weekend about the fact that circuits had been changed to accommodate ever-faster and more complex cars and bikes, and sometimes the balance between the two isn't right for one or the other - or, sometimes, either.

Drivers have always pushed boundaries. They always will.

Greem is of-course right here, neither a wall or low grip strip would work well for a run-off that is actually used as track for a different layout.


What they could do is make the kerb passed the bit of tarmac run-off that is also track significantly more troublesome to return over. Lose of grip/ floor damage is not nice. They would avoid it that way as well.

[crmalcolm]

Two alternative views on what was happening.

Radio exchange between Bono and Hamilton:
Bono: "We're getting warnings about track limits at Turn Four so just tidy that up."
Hamilton: "I thought there was no track limits.
Bono: "Copy that on track Lewis but we are getting the messages from race control that you will get a black and white flag next time so five seconds.
Hamilton: "I've been doing the same thing all race. That's f***ing bull****."
Bono: "Yeah, they're getting a bit bumpy about it now."

Whereas Masi describes the situation:
"With regard to tolerance given with people running outside of the track limits during the race it was mentioned very clearly in the meeting and the notes that it would not be monitored with regard to setting the lap time, so to speak, but it will always be monitored in according with the sporting regulations that a lasting advantage overall must not be gained."
[...]
"No, nothing changed at all during the race, we had two people that were looking in that area at every car at every lap and pretty much every car bar one was doing the right thing within what we expected in a general sequence. There was the occasional car that had a bit of a moment or went out there but it wasn't a constant thing."


So which is the correct version of the truth?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

So which is the correct version of the truth?

LH has been driving in F1 long enough to know rules change on a dime all the time so i say his outrage is not true!

i like that race control played that message as well as the Horner one where he explained to max what LH was doing (a subtle piece of work on Horner's part i thought).

personally i like the transparency of it. based on the drivers' opinions in the briefing, Masi allowed them a little latitude here and once a team took issue with it (or specifically one driver using it too much) that latitude was taken away. i dont feel it was arbitrary and i feel like this was the proper way to deal with it.

tracks evolve over race weekends...its not unreasonable that the race director's notes, directives, rules etc evolve with it as well imo.

also once LH stopped using that extra bit, his tires on his final stint lasted much longer. less fuel, track rubbering in and of course slowing down and using less kerbs no doubt all contributed to preserving his tires, but there was a pretty sharp difference in tire life between his 2nd and 3rd stint on those hards.

could that mean his 2nd stint on the hards where he only got 16 laps (i think) out of them was a self inflicted wound?

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Two alternative views on what was happening.

Radio exchange between Bono and Hamilton:
Bono: "We're getting warnings about track limits at Turn Four so just tidy that up."
Hamilton: "I thought there was no track limits.
Bono: "Copy that on track Lewis but we are getting the messages from race control that you will get a black and white flag next time so five seconds.
Hamilton: "I've been doing the same thing all race. That's f***ing bull****."
Bono: "Yeah, they're getting a bit bumpy about it now."

Whereas Masi describes the situation:
"With regard to tolerance given with people running outside of the track limits during the race it was mentioned very clearly in the meeting and the notes that it would not be monitored with regard to setting the lap time, so to speak, but it will always be monitored in according with the sporting regulations that a lasting advantage overall must not be gained."
[...]
"No, nothing changed at all during the race, we had two people that were looking in that area at every car at every lap and pretty much every car bar one was doing the right thing within what we expected in a general sequence. There was the occasional car that had a bit of a moment or went out there but it wasn't a constant thing."


So which is the correct version of the truth?

I’m starting to trust Masi less and less

If you look at the Twitter link I provided above it clearly shows the rules set for T4 were different in practice and the race and it clearly shows multiple drivers doing the same thing INCLUDING Verstappen, even before Horner complained

[Aysedasi]

What would have been laudably 'transparent' would have been for the race director to say that the same rule would be applied strictly in the race as it was in qualifying. No debate, no stretching the application of the rule, just do it and you're penalised. Simples.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

What would have been laudably 'transparent' would have been for the race director to say that the same rule would be applied strictly in the race as it was in qualifying. No debate, no stretching the application of the rule, just do it and you're penalised. Simples.

Correct.....which is why everyone is utterly confused,

It’s disappointing too, because instead of talking about a fantastic race and win, all people are talking about on social media is Hamilton breaking the rules (even though he didn’t) and robbing max of a win

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

It’s disappointing too, because instead of talking about a fantastic race and win, all people are talking about on social media is Hamilton breaking the rules (even though he didn’t) and robbing max of a win

people are always complaining on social media.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

What would have been laudably 'transparent' would have been for the race director to say that the same rule would be applied strictly in the race as it was in qualifying. No debate, no stretching the application of the rule, just do it and you're penalised. Simples.

Why didn't he?

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Why didn't he?

That’s the million dollar question. If you look at the pre race driver notes, track limits at T4 were never going to be enforced in the race. Bizzare to have 2 sets of rules in 1 weekend

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

people are always complaining on social media.

I always wish there was a 'why don't you just shut up you stupid prat' emoji.....

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I always wish there was a 'why don't you just shut up you stupid prat' emoji.....

😆😆😆

Didn't we used to have emojis for 'my brain explodes' and also for lobbing stuff at a screen to illustrate frustration at daft posts?

[Last2LiftOff]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

My preferred option would be a moat.......

Sandwich wrap.

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I always wish there was a 'why don't you just shut up you stupid prat' emoji.....

prat \noun\British

:a stupid or foolish person

Ah, carry on.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chunterer

😆😆😆

Didn't we used to have emojis for 'my brain explodes' and also for lobbing stuff at a screen to illustrate frustration at daft posts?

There's this....

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

There's this....

And possibly these!!

[chillibowl]

social media is not all bad although these twitch videos are a bit hard to follow along with...and apparently Lando has been doing these race debriefs for a while now.

i just scrolled through it quickly and some good bits. starting around 1:04ish is his take on LH/Max pass.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/970247953

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

social media is not all bad although these twitch videos are a bit hard to follow along with...and apparently Lando has been doing these race debriefs for a while now.

i just scrolled through it quickly and some good bits. starting around 1:04ish is his take on LH/Max pass.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/970247953

Really did enjoy that, thanks Lando. Did agree with him on the Max/Lewis controversy

[Tourer]

So according to Marko, RB had a "diff issue" that hampered both drivers and then had to turn the power down to avoid overheating in Bahrain.

After only one race, it is looking much closer at the front (although that may change) and that puts added pressure onto both teams - neither can afford even relatively minor problems when it is so close.

[Adam43]

Apparently 0.3s a lap. Advantage Red Bull?